Engine Problem (I think)

[Explorer]

Hi Everyone,
Need some help again. About 400 hundred miles ago started the GS and heard a horrible graunch sound metal against metal-left cylinder head I think. Less than a second duration though-bike ran fine. No repeat. I guessed the head had gone dry as it was on the sidestand too long. (Boy am I going to regret that I feel) Anyway 400 hundred miles later coming home last night-bike started to hesitate on a constant throttle-every so often. Felt a bit like it was running out of fuel-but it wasn't and some how I just thought it's trying to seize up. Got to a garage checked the oil-sure-too low. Damn. Got perhaps up to half a litre into it-no more-and started off again. Much better-but think it still hesitated a couple of times. What do you all think? Is it an injection problem? Air filter? (I will check) I just have a horrible suspicion that it's engine damage. I will be draining the oil, flushing the engine(Any advice on this best product to use/what not to use)-and then new oil filter/oil the works. What do you think guys? What's the problem and how much is it going to cost me ? Is it just new rings? Will an oil change just flash out the bad vibes? Lie to me!(Bilkes done 53k)
Yours in mental Anguish,
Explorer

"The Journey of a thousand miles beings with a single step"

 

[boxer]

If it sounded that bad remove the valve cover and check.

Oil starvation because of side stand useage doesn't sound right [are you sure it's not just the cam chain tensioner waiting for oil pressure you heard] and if the side stand was deployed wouldn't the LH cylinder be facing down hill. How long was it on it's side stand. The side stand is meant to be used and shouldn't cause any sort of bone-dry condition.

The hesitation you felt could well be the throttle bodies in need of balancing.

Are you sure you checked the oil correctly? it's something of a black art. Is it overfilled now?

If I were you I'd:

Remove LH valve cover and check for damage.
Make sure oil level check procedure was correct [search the is site]
Check throttle body balance [search this site - search for Twin Max]

Buy ear plugs.
Stop worrying.

Best of luck with it.

Russ.

 

[BigBadBen]

Surging...

You've just entered the surging zone.....

bike started to hesitate on a constant throttle-every so often

You've had your first experience of surging!

They all do that sir.

Have a look at the OVAD documentation about setting rocker clearances etc.

Cheers,

Ben

 

[MikeO]

Explorer,

first, if it was a result of leaving the bike on the sidestand, I wouldn't expect the 'graunch' to be from the left cyclinder head, since that's where the oil would be pooling. Could the noise have been the starter not immediately disengaging - that can sound pretty scary....

Why are you connecting these two events? I'd be careful about assumptions - they can lead to engine strips when you've actually run out of petrol (I was 17 yrs old ).

What you describe sounds like a misfire - could be any number of things causing it - have you kept up the service schedule? - when did you last check/change the plugs? Could even be surging - when were the throttle bodies last synched?

Mike

 

[roadrider]

Scary Noise

Scary noise
I suspect you heard the sound of the starter motor engaging
whilst the engine is still running, I had this problem on an RT 3 years ago. a very scary noise indeed. As the revs dropped the starter motor still spinning gets it's chance to engage and makes the most scary sound like metal on metal scraping together.

John

The cure was a new starter relay, honest that's all it was. a fairly common fault, dodgy relays on M*W's

 

[the celt]

Hi Explorer,
Im with roadrider it could be starter motor engaging, I once hit starter button by mistake when engine was running scared the cr4p out of me, as for fuel not getting through when did you last change the fuel filter ? might be that.
regards
jose

 

[Explorer]

Engine Problem

As ever guys Thanks for the advice. Starter Motor when engine running?-not that one -I know that. Sounds horrendous-but not what I did. Anyway, sound was too short in duration less than a second. Someone said may not be connected to later event-true-i will calm down. Surging I have heard about this-but never had the problem till now-will look into it. Throttle bodies were balanced 6 months ago. Will take the valve heads of and have a look. Will try everything before engine strip.
Thanks again guys
Happier Explorer

 

[Explorer]

Explorer,

first, if it was a result of leaving the bike on the sidestand, I wouldn't expect the 'graunch' to be from the left cyclinder head, since that's where the oil would be pooling. Could the noise have been the starter not immediately disengaging - that can sound pretty scary....

Why are you connecting these two events? I'd be careful about assumptions - they can lead to engine strips when you've actually run out of petrol (I was 17 yrs old ).

What you describe sounds like a misfire - could be any number of things causing it - have you kept up the service schedule? - when did you last check/change the plugs? Could even be surging - when were the throttle bodies last synched?

Mike

 

[Explorer]

Explorer,

first, if it was a result of leaving the bike on the sidestand, I wouldn't expect the 'graunch' to be from the left cyclinder head, since that's where the oil would be pooling. Could the noise have been the starter not immediately disengaging - that can sound pretty scary....

Why are you connecting these two events? I'd be careful about assumptions - they can lead to engine strips when you've actually run out of petrol (I was 17 yrs old ).

What you describe sounds like a misfire - could be any number of things causing it - have you kept up the service schedule? - when did you last check/change the plugs? Could even be surging - when were the throttle bodies last synched?

Mike

Good point about the left hand side cylinder-plugs were changed aboyut a thousand miles ago-will check. Service schedule has been followed.
Thanks for the advice Rgds Explorer

 

[Explorer]

If it sounded that bad remove the valve cover and check.

Oil starvation because of side stand useage doesn't sound right [are you sure it's not just the cam chain tensioner waiting for oil pressure you heard] and if the side stand was deployed wouldn't the LH cylinder be facing down hill. How long was it on it's side stand. The side stand is meant to be used and shouldn't cause any sort of bone-dry condition.

The hesitation you felt could well be the throttle bodies in need of balancing.

Are you sure you checked the oil correctly? it's something of a black art. Is it overfilled now?

If I were you I'd:

Remove LH valve cover and check for damage.
Make sure oil level check procedure was correct [search the is site]
Check throttle body balance [search this site - search for Twin Max]

Buy ear plugs.
Stop worrying.

Best of luck with it.

Russ.

Thanks very much-stopped worrying already cos lot's of things here to try before engine out! Throttles were balanced earlier this year. Thought I had been doing oil checks correctly-(although clearly not often enough recently,) but I will check the site. An oil change can't hurt. Cheers Explorer

 

[Explorer]

Hi Explorer,
Im with roadrider it could be starter motor engaging, I once hit starter button by mistake when engine was running scared the cr4p out of me, as for fuel not getting through when did you last change the fuel filter ? might be that.
regards
jose

Thanks Fuel Fliter-will check out-although supposed to heve been done a few months ago. Cheers

 

[Mick Fagan]

You may possibly have experienced some detonation in the cylinder head. Severe detonation can sound like metal against metal and or a hammer knocking on the head. It usually only lasts for a few seconds and is usually eliminated by an immediate backing off, of the throttle.

Causes are various, but poor quality fuel will do it to these highly strung engines.

Another possible cause is that a cam lobe on a cam shaft may have cracked. When this happens it can make a hell of a racket as it does so. Sometimes nothing else happens except over time one finds the engine isn't quite as crisp as it once was. Eventually the lobe will start slipping as the cam shaft turns and that particular valve will stay shut and the bike on that cylinder becomes a three valve head. The bike then is a bit of a bother to ride, you'll know if this happens.

I have seen two of these personally on friends bikes.

Mick.

 

[joe-he]

surging?

I have had similar, but usually worse after riding 8 hours in rain. The injector connector does fill up with water! The bike seems to forget where the TPS is then, problems start. Also I find I have to turn my air filter round in shite weather.

So after drying the injector connector and turning air filter. Reseting Motronic with use of fuse 7? It runs fine again.

 

[Explorer]

You may possibly have experienced some detonation in the cylinder head. Severe detonation can sound like metal against metal and or a hammer knocking on the head. It usually only lasts for a few seconds and is usually eliminated by an immediate backing off, of the throttle.

Causes are various, but poor quality fuel will do it to these highly strung engines.

Another possible cause is that a cam lobe on a cam shaft may have cracked. When this happens it can make a hell of a racket as it does so. Sometimes nothing else happens except over time one finds the engine isn't quite as crisp as it once was. Eventually the lobe will start slipping as the cam shaft turns and that particular valve will stay shut and the bike on that cylinder becomes a three valve head. The bike then is a bit of a bother to ride, you'll know if this happens.

I have seen two of these personally on friends bikes.

Mick.

Thanks Mick Hope it's not that but will remember it as I check things out
Cheers Explorer

 

[Explorer]

Re: surging?

I have had similar, but usually worse after riding 8 hours in rain. The injector connector does fill up with water! The bike seems to forget where the TPS is then, problems start. Also I find I have to turn my air filter round in shite weather.

So after drying the injector connector and turning air filter. Reseting Motronic with use of fuse 7? It runs fine again.

Thanks will check it out Regards Explorer

 

[Explorer]

Engine Problem update

Hi Guys,
Well I did the work today and changed the gear oil and the engine oil. Gear box transformed into Suzuki like jewel by semi synth oil. That's the good news. The bad news is that I found some tiny metal flakes-about enough to cover a finger tip-in the old engine oil. Now I didn't fully clean the gear oil out of the drip tray-so it might have come from there (it has had it's share of grinding)but I think I am kidding mysefl I know it came from the engine. I took off the valve covers-everything perfect. So advice please-does some shrapnel mean a definite engine strip? (The bike is running perfectly now on 4 mile test rides -anyway) Someone said it could be a cam lobe-if it needs work is there anyone good at this who is cheaper then James Sherlock? The bike has done 56k miles and only cost me £3k so serious engine work or a new S/H engine and I may sell it to a breakers and start again-what do you guys think? I will take it for a longer run tommorrow,
Thanks for the advice

Explorer