Estimating time and trying to keep a group together

Totally agree last time I went away in a group it was one needed fuel at 120 miles , would the others fill up nope, ending up having to stop 30 miles later because another needed fuel and then 30 miles after that another needed fuel, every stop 40 minutes rather than 15.

They refused to carry maps or sat navs so 2 got lost when they followed the wrong bikes, another riding at the back of the group decided to turn back to go to a garage and the one in front didn't realise, only found out at the next fuel stop.

Some drinking until 2am and being barely able to stand never mind ride their bikes the next day , it took us 9 hours to do a distance that I would easily do in 5 1/2. an utter and absolute nightmare

Sounds like piss poor organisation to me. But hey, this is UKGSer, where nobody ever organises anything. It’s all wing-it.

As for beers in the evening, we are all (mostly) guilty of that sin. But be on parade the next day and at least pretend to be bright eyed and bushy tailed.
 
I’ve not got the patience to deal with that kind of aggravation so we’d be going our own way the second day :D

it's why I always prebook hotels for my regular group and everyone starts the trip with the list of hotels, suggestions for routes but no obligation to use them and no obligation on my part to hold their hand en route. It works well for us.
 
Larger groups, say up to 10 bikes, works too. Then they might get strung out over perhaps five miles. But again, with everyone knowing where they are going and / or having a good marker ‘drop off’ system running (with everyone knowing how it works) it’s not a huge problem.

The problems come:

A. For the leader. It’s quite tiring leading a group, as you have to look after yourself AND them to some degree or another.

B. Lots of things look like motorcycles in the mirrors, keeping track of what is happening behind you is not always easy, especially if the bod behind has the light of a thousand blazing suns beaming out. You really cannot see a thing.

C. Cafe / lunch stops are tricky, as few small towns can cater for 10 bikes plus maybe pillions arriving to all sit down at once. The leader has to find a place where 10 bikes can park safely, which is not always easy, meaning you have to ride past places that would be very suitable for a smaller group or solo. Not least, contrary to rumour, not every town and village is littered with cafes.


For those that don’t like riding in groups, there’s an easy solution. Start to lead some groups and run them your way.

Spot on.

A good dropoff system works wonders even if people don't know where they are going - but everyone does need to understand it. Most roads are just fine, but some motorway junctions can be tricky. But a halfway decent leader can always slow down a mile or so before a tricky junction to let the group form up again. You can use a back marker to come up to front to give you a thumbs up to let you know everyone is together again, even if you don't have reliable comms. And then if the group still gets spread out, it's simple enough to pull over to the side of the road somewhere with good visibility for a few minutes until everyone is caught up again.

If you are looking after a group on tour and have organised the trip, it's a bit like being a cross between a social worker, tour guide and nanny at times. And it can be tiring indeed. On the flip side, it's wonderful if the group buys you dinner on the last night, maybe gives you a little gift and a round of applause for the trip - kind of makes it worth it. (My trips are like Wapping's - all unpaid).

For lunch stops with good size groups, I normally try and Google stalk the rough area in advance, look at POIs on MRA/BaseCamp, look at the satellite view to get a good idea of parking options. In France, places like a Buffalo Grill are pretty decent. They always have plenty of parking, are close to major road/motorway junctions, normally near a fuel stop and can accommodate good sized groups without a booking. It's not Haute Cuisine, but gets the job done.

Coffee stops can be more ad-hoc. If you are passing through a nice looking village and you see somewhere to park the bikes up, it's normally easy enough to get 20 cups of coffee and a cake in a town square. Worst case, grab a coffee at a petrol station while the group is filling up.

When I plan a route, I always look to put a waypoint at a fuel stop every 70 to 80 miles. I may not use them, but I always want to be prepared for the twat that didn't fill up at the last one, then comes up to the front pointing at his tank. I'll Google stalk the fuel stops on satellite view just make sure they are on the right side of the road, look to have more than 2 pumps etc...

As for filling up with a big group, as someone said above, a buddy system reduces time. 2 bikes fill together on the same pump, one rider pays. Next stop they do the same and the other bloke pays. It works out pretty good most of the time.

I tend to travel mainly with bikes with bigger tanks, but there's almost always a littlun or two, so I plan fuel stops for the littluns and try and explain to the group that some stops are just "splash and dash" for the small bikes and the bigger ones shouldn't fill up there. Doesn't always work, but mainly it does.

Personally, I really enjoy riding in groups, and leading them. It can be hard work at times, but I find it really rewarding being able to show people parts of the world that they may not have seen otherwise.
 
The other thing I like doing is picnic lunches, as it makes stopping somewhere (particularly in unknown areas) much easier. Most places will have a small supermarket or just a sandwich shop. It doesn’t need to be the full Fortnum and Mason whisker basket job…. Though it would be good!
Exactly this - supermarche baguettes cheese meats and something to drink, find a field
Loads cheaper and more fun than a resurant

ldg picknick.jpg
 
One thing I’ve figured out from riding abroad since May 2016. Is that no matter how big or small the group is, you can’t please everybody.

You get people who tag along on a trip to Lake Garda, then take over the trip and suggest that the four of us go to CZ instead because suddenly they are interested in Eastern European Prostitutes. Erm that’s not happening, we are going to Lake Garda.

You also get people who are just happy to be in your company, tag along without questioning your each and every move or running a route to a destination on a different nav App/Device, but at the end of just appreciative of it all having had a relaxing week long jaunt without having to lift a finger into the planning a ingle bit of it.

You get the types who simply can’t take a bit on a chin, yet totally happy to dish it out all day long.

There are natural born leaders…

You get those who faff, and on occasion I am guilty of such actions myself. But I am a far cry from the extreme cases out there. But that because it is just the way I am. I hate knocks, rattles etc. so everything has its place, and every place has to have its thing. Lobbing everything anyhow into a pannier, will not bode well for my days riding.

You get the quiet ones, that will stay mostly silent all day long, then unroll their scroll of frustrations from the days ride at a session with a cold one in hand.

You get seasoned riders who know their craft and want to have a play , but get their progress is held up by those who are less confident on their steeds and are a few miles behind.

You also get those who just want to chat for the duration of the ride.

You get the types who are A —> B riders via the fastest route possible, whilst leaving at 3am and be done riding by lunchtime having covered 600 miles in a day with a single piss/fuel stop and a drop of coffee.

So whenever I go away with the boys, I just keep an open mind, knowing that you can’t have it all the way suits you and that everybody will be same as a next bloke you get to meet along the way.

The smaller the group, the easier it is, yet the bigger the group the more diverse and dynamic it is too at lunch, beer or/and dinner time.

I too enjoy my own company, and are happy to spend a week riding on my own. But safety is always in numbers. So naturally would prefer to be in a company of one other rider at least.

I enjoy discovering places along the way and poking my nose into these. Sometimes, it isn’t always practical with all the kit on or leaving the bike unattended. But out in the sticks, I am more than happy to park up and as long as I can keep an eye on the bike and kit, I am happy to go for a wonder. If there is a lake or a river I spotted and it is a 30°c+ then I am also happy to have a quick swim too.
 
Spot on.

A good dropoff system works wonders even if people don't know where they are going - but everyone does need to understand it. Most roads are just fine, but some motorway junctions can be tricky. But a halfway decent leader can always slow down a mile or so before a tricky junction to let the group form up again. You can use a back marker to come up to front to give you a thumbs up to let you know everyone is together again, even if you don't have reliable comms. And then if the group still gets spread out, it's simple enough to pull over to the side of the road somewhere with good visibility for a few minutes until everyone is caught up again.

If you are looking after a group on tour and have organised the trip, it's a bit like being a cross between a social worker, tour guide and nanny at times. And it can be tiring indeed. On the flip side, it's wonderful if the group buys you dinner on the last night, maybe gives you a little gift and a round of applause for the trip - kind of makes it worth it. (My trips are like Wapping's - all unpaid).

For lunch stops with good size groups, I normally try and Google stalk the rough area in advance, look at POIs on MRA/BaseCamp, look at the satellite view to get a good idea of parking options. In France, places like a Buffalo Grill are pretty decent. They always have plenty of parking, are close to major road/motorway junctions, normally near a fuel stop and can accommodate good sized groups without a booking. It's not Haute Cuisine, but gets the job done.

Coffee stops can be more ad-hoc. If you are passing through a nice looking village and you see somewhere to park the bikes up, it's normally easy enough to get 20 cups of coffee and a cake in a town square. Worst case, grab a coffee at a petrol station while the group is filling up.

When I plan a route, I always look to put a waypoint at a fuel stop every 70 to 80 miles. I may not use them, but I always want to be prepared for the twat that didn't fill up at the last one, then comes up to the front pointing at his tank. I'll Google stalk the fuel stops on satellite view just make sure they are on the right side of the road, look to have more than 2 pumps etc...

As for filling up with a big group, as someone said above, a buddy system reduces time. 2 bikes fill together on the same pump, one rider pays. Next stop they do the same and the other bloke pays. It works out pretty good most of the time.

I tend to travel mainly with bikes with bigger tanks, but there's almost always a littlun or two, so I plan fuel stops for the littluns and try and explain to the group that some stops are just "splash and dash" for the small bikes and the bigger ones shouldn't fill up there. Doesn't always work, but mainly it does.

Personally, I really enjoy riding in groups, and leading them. It can be hard work at times, but I find it really rewarding being able to show people parts of the world that they may not have seen otherwise.
My las ride was on 1st of December. A memorial ride in the name of our late riding instructor who has succumbed to cancer. Ronn put both myself and my wife through our trining and tests with great results.

The group was some 35-40+ bikes. The leader has given instructions on what is and how does drop off system works, what he will do if you are directly behind him and what this would mean to you as a rider who is directly behind him. Half a time people completely ignored the instructions, leading with half the group being some 20 minutes behind, having become separated at the junctions and consequently gone in the wrong direction.

Why is that then? Because some of these riders did not listen, understood the instructions and/or never heard of such ra group riding system and just followed the bloke in front all the time instead.
 
In Europe I always allow a moving average of 40mph.

Ballparking but it has never ever been far off.

On a recent 6800 mile trip to Istanbul my moving average was 39.

I don’t split into a roads d roads etc.

My average of averages is 40, always works.
 
I try to arrange long days followed by shorter days depending on the group. I personally like long days to start with. We often ride 500-550 mile first days when going to France.
The 40 mph average is just about what we seem to get too. The type of roads doesn’t seem to alter it much (other than motorway stretches) whether A, B, or more rural roads. I do like to get over 100 miles done before breakfast on the first day. This usually means Breakfast in Scotland. This is then where the day starts. After that we have more time to relax and stop for brews etc.
 
In a group watch out for those with large tanks not filling up when Mr small tank does, at 130 Miles Mr Small tank fills up and Mr Big Tank declares he has half a tank left, but we all know (or should) the fuel gauage shows full for ages on most bikes and drops like a stone later on, so 50 miles up the road Mr Large tank starts flapping his arms cos his fuel light is on ;-) Best to say when one fills all fill - no exceptions.
A pet hate of mine :rob
 
I organised a few trips to Europe with the same basic group, plus or minus one or two each year, most years from 2000 to 2009. This varied from a weekend in France to 10 days in Spain. After a break, I did something similar last year that ended up with 9 bikes, including two who had recently passed their tests and this was their first tour and first time abroad. Wapping mentions above that pressure of being the tour organiser - I completely agree. No matter how much you stress that everyone needs to be self-sufficient, you still feel a responsibility to ensure everyone is safe and happy.

(I've also been on a couple of Wapping's Wanders. Unfailingly entertaining and much better organised than my own. Last year's trip involved three who I met through this forum.)

A few thoughts from me:-

If there are more than two of you, you either need to accept that you will be slowed down trying to stay together, or plan for how you will deal with being separated.

We now agree a start time, a lunch location, and the end-of-day destination. Everyone needs to be able (and confident) to get there on their own if necessary. That means having a means to navigate (whether it's sat nav, phone or maps). I don't mind whether I'm riding alone, in a small group, or all together, but I'm not going to stress about staying together.

Everyone MUST have their own breakdown insurance and travel insurance, and be prepared to use it if necessary. The agreement from the outset is that with the exception of a serious injury or illness, you WILL be left behind if your bike breaks down. One person's misfortune won't be allowed to spoil everyone's holiday. (I've been the sad bloke waving goodbye to the rest of the group as they rode off without me - Sunday afternoon on the Grossglockner - and also ridden away from the tearful tourer standing by the side of the road with a broken bike.)

If someone else has booked the accommodation, there will be NO MOANING from the others that it is too spartan/too posh/bar closes too early/the view isn't good enough/the beds are too small blah blah blah. If you want control over where we'll be staying, YOU book it!

If we all want to eat together, that's great, But if some people want three courses with two wines, and others want a Big Mac, that's fine too.

Someone who is great fun to spend a night out with, or a day's bike ride with, can easily become intensely annoying after ten days together! That includes me, of course!

I'm not going to research where the petrol stations are, where it's cheapest, which petrol stations do a nice decaf, or where does the best croque monsieur. If you were paying me to organise a tour I'd do all of those. But you're not, so I won't.

On the trip last year, plans were thrown into chaos my numerous closed roads after storms and torrential rain. Trying to negotiate that staying in a group of 9 would have been a nightmare and I think there would have been tears before bedtime. I did feel sorry for the newbies who were faced with the phone/sat nav repeatedly trying to send them up flooded roads, but we all made it eventually.

250 miles a day away from motorways seems to be a reasonably comfortable distance. 350 if motorways are involved. My days of choosing to do 500+ miles a day are long gone. Too old, too creaky...

Despite all the above, I haven't a had a single tour that I didn't really enjoy, and everyone else has said the same. But ensuring that everyone knows the rules from the outset is essential.
 
Despite all the above, I haven't a had a single tour that I didn't really enjoy, and everyone else has said the same. But ensuring that everyone knows the rules from the outset is essential.

I snipped your list but my group trips are along similar lines.

The only thing to add is that newbies tend to be vetted on a weekend in the UK before they are invited to a longer trip abroad. I organised my first trip in 1995, just 2 of us and only one person never made it onto an overseas trip. Turned out to be a sleaze who could not keep his hands to himself after a beverage.
 
Great thread, I’ve got just the one time saving tip:

Everyone refuel just before you get to the hotel each day wherever possible. It saves wasting time looking for petrol the next morning before you’ve covered any distance and it’s nice to be confident that you have a full tank at the start of each day.
 
I snipped your list but my group trips are along similar lines.

The only thing to add is that newbies tend to be vetted on a weekend in the UK before they are invited to a longer trip abroad. I organised my first trip in 1995, just 2 of us and only one person never made it onto an overseas trip. Turned out to be a sleaze who could not keep his hands to himself after a beverage.
I wouldn't invite newbies I didn't know well. On this occasion, the newbies were my nephew and my niece's husband. Known them both for ages (my nephew all his life!) so I was confident they'd fit in. Some young blood added to the group of old gits like me (and ChasMill, Stolzy, Bouncer, etc) was a great addition.

The two of them rode together for most of the trip, often with another nephew keeping a gentle eye on them, and despite the "it's every man for himself" approach outlined above, we made sure they were always accompanied.

One of them didn't make it back on his bike (clutch failed) and had to fly home with his bike repatriated a week or two later. Was a ballache at the time, but made it into more of an adventure.
 
Where’s the fun in all this group riding?
Just meet up at hotel end of day
Job done No hassle
 


Back
Top Bottom