EURO 5 on the doorstep

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Warlord said:
I understand why you say that, but I just don't get it.

If people really thought that BMW motorcycles were that bad, why would you entrust your life to such shoddy engineering? ....
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It's a BMW......and they have a track record of some fairly major issues across the range over the last 15 years or so.

I suspect all the ex jap sportsbike fashionistas who are used to their machines looking archaic and distinctly lacking in power after 12 months still have that mentality....exaggerating a bit there but you get the point.

The mechanical competence of the average Gs rider and bike rider seems to have markedly reduced... You know as well as I do the WC section is littered with threads of people asking stupid questions they should know the answer to or be able to work out themselves.

Add to that a bike that needs the dealer to balance the throttle bodies with a laptop inlieu of a vacuum gauge....

I also wager most Gs owners don't appreciate the bike for what it is and can do....thanks to the Lwr factor the image problem has been solved....

Combine all that together and you have the current situation...
 
blueranger said:
It's a BMW......and they have a track record of some fairly major issues across the range over the last 15 years or so.

I suspect all the ex jap sportsbike fashionistas who are used to their machines looking archaic and distinctly lacking in power after 12 months still have that mentality....exaggerating a bit there but you get the point.

The mechanical competence of the average Gs rider and bike rider seems to have markedly reduced... You know as well as I do the WC section is littered with threads of people asking stupid questions they should know the answer to or be able to work out themselves.

Add to that a bike that needs the dealer to balance the throttle bodies with a laptop inlieu of a vacuum gauge....

I also wager most Gs owners don't appreciate the bike for what it is and can do....thanks to the Lwr factor the image problem has been solved....

Combine all that together and you have the current situation...
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Well that is certainly and probably one of the best I have heard, and it is a fact, you only need to look in the computer help section, most cannot fix their emails, so how will they fix a GS with a GS-911 needed, and then possibly ISTA software and an ICOM NEXT box, now I bet as they read this their head will already be spinning, but it is true, unless you have some expensive tools, things are getting harder to do individually, hence plenty of room, for a wizard to cast the spell.
 
... and as each new generation of bikes is getting more complex.... deeper and deeper the rabbit hole gets.
 
Smogbob said:
So Euro 5 is on our doorstep 1st January 2020, I wonder what surprises BMW has in store for us, what will work, what will not work new software upgrades possibly, emission lockdowns etc, fire away with your thoughts.
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Eight pages of wild arsed theory's and abuse you gave the wasps nest a good poke there Bob:D:rob
 
g.s.john said:
Eight pages of wild arsed theory's and abuse you gave the wasps nest a good poke there Bob:D:rob
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[cough] seven

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The Nutty KTMer said:
He's not known as the forum troll for nothing, you know. ;)
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Very kind of you Rich, yet to see some posts of yours, even unscrewing a bolt from a bike, now off you go back to Orange land to think of a way of how to make money. :duno or you may say something interesting, to add on to your many many useless posts.
 
g.s.john said:
Eight pages of wild arsed theory's and abuse you gave the wasps nest a good poke there Bob:D:rob
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Yep it makes most of the ill to think something is going to self destruct in 2020, yet speaking logically and trying to look forward to what we can, and cannot do will only help save from making dreadful mistakes like in the past, as we have all made at some point, some admit others bury their head in the Orange sand. :beerjug:
 
Smogbob said:
Very kind of you Rich, yet to see some posts of yours, even unscrewing a bolt from a bike, now off you go back to Orange land to think of a way of how to make money. :duno or you may say something interesting, to add on to your many many useless posts.
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:JB:JB:JB
 
Warlord said:
... and as each new generation of bikes is getting more complex.
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The whole bike is not more complex....only engine management.

There is still quite a bit of basic maintenance that can be done as you know. On the vvt 1250 Setting the valve timming is probably out of reach but it can be done on the 12lc.
Sensor faults are easily detected as they read within range or have some ludicrous value or not at all.

Canbus is a bit of pain but worst case I wonder how hard it would be to implement an oil head wiring harness/ecu/throttle bodies onto a 12lc and screw the euro emissions...

Where as the tendency is to upgrade old bikes, I wonder if there will be downgrades being discussed with folks fitting emerald or mega-squit ecu's in lieu of oem.
 
blueranger said:
The whole bike is not more complex....only engine management.

There is still quite a bit of basic maintenance that can be done as you know. On the vvt 1250 Setting the valve timming is probably out of reach but it can be done on the 12lc.
Sensor faults are easily detected as they read within range or have some ludicrous value or not at all.

Canbus is a bit of pain but worst case I wonder how hard it would be to implement an oil head wiring harness/ecu/throttle bodies onto a 12lc and screw the euro emissions...

Where as the tendency is to upgrade old bikes, I wonder if there will be downgrades being discussed with folks fitting emerald or mega-squit ecu's in lieu of oem.
Click to expand...

You have just destroyed the evening, but totally love the idea, might be the next craze. :beerjug:
 
blueranger said:
The whole bike is not more complex....only engine management.

There is still quite a bit of basic maintenance that can be done as you know. On the vvt 1250 Setting the valve timming is probably out of reach but it can be done on the 12lc.
Sensor faults are easily detected as they read within range or have some ludicrous value or not at all.

Canbus is a bit of pain but worst case I wonder how hard it would be to implement an oil head wiring harness/ecu/throttle bodies onto a 12lc and screw the euro emissions...

Where as the tendency is to upgrade old bikes, I wonder if there will be downgrades being discussed with folks fitting emerald or mega-squit ecu's in lieu of oem.
Click to expand...
Setting the valve timing is easy; doing it correctly however.......

It'll only be a couple of years before everyone's harking back to the good old days.

Put aside your pre shiftcam 1250 it's going to be worth megabucks in years to come.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
Tractors are go said:
Setting the valve timing is easy; doing it correctly however.......

It'll only be a couple of years before everyone's harking back to the good old days.

Put aside your pre shiftcam 1250 it's going to be worth megabucks in years to come.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Dare you to tell beaver. :D
 
This post started out debating Euro 5, and , as more or less always, it has escalated beyond recognition. I will herby add my contribution to the OT :beerjug:

Lots of post are covering the complexity of the bike, as compared to previous bikes, and people marvel back to the 1150 and the early 1200GS for their simplicity.

All I can say is, history repeats it self.
When the 1150 was launched, lots of riders complained about the added complexity as compared to the R100 series. For as long as I remember, there has always been people that shy new technology and instead of reading up on the latest technology, they plug their behind deep into their chair and spend the time complaining.

In my point of view the 1250 is mechanically not very complex. The bike is well built, and the required maintenance is well within the capability for anyone capable of reading a manual.
Further, the computers are the best thing that ever happened to modern vehicles. I remember when we had to change and adjust the points for ignition, cleaning carburetors, changing float needles etc. and we needed all kinds of gauges for adjusting the engine and for general diagnostic work. The cost of the diagnostic equipment in todays money are cheaper than what we had to pay for the ignition lamp/dwellmeter/multimeter etc. back then.

This all boils down to that the newer stuff is in many ways simpler to work on than the old stuff, but it requires that we pull our head out of the bucket and learn how the new stuff works. And frankly, it's not that hard if one only sets the mind to it rather then spend all the efforts on resisting changes. Lets face it. The World will keep spinning, whether we like it or not. :okay
 
knutk said:
This post started out debating Euro 5, and , as more or less always, it has escalated beyond recognition. I will herby add my contribution to the OT :beerjug:

Lots of post are covering the complexity of the bike, as compared to previous bikes, and people marvel back to the 1150 and the early 1200GS for their simplicity.

All I can say is, history repeats it self.
When the 1150 was launched, lots of riders complained about the added complexity as compared to the R100 series. For as long as I remember, there has always been people that shy new technology and instead of reading up on the latest technology, they plug their behind deep into their chair and spend the time complaining.

In my point of view the 1250 is mechanically not very complex. The bike is well built, and the required maintenance is well within the capability for anyone capable of reading a manual.
Further, the computers are the best thing that ever happened to modern vehicles. I remember when we had to change and adjust the points for ignition, cleaning carburetors, changing float needles etc. and we needed all kinds of gauges for adjusting the engine and for general diagnostic work. The cost of the diagnostic equipment in todays money are cheaper than what we had to pay for the ignition lamp/dwellmeter/multimeter etc. back then.

This all boils down to that the newer stuff is in many ways simpler to work on than the old stuff, but it requires that we pull our head out of the bucket and learn how the new stuff works. And frankly, it's not that hard if one only sets the mind to it rather then spend all the efforts on resisting changes. Lets face it. The World will keep spinning, whether we like it or not. :okay
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Agreed, but people put on rose tinted specs and mutter about how things ain't what they used to be.

Now is the golden age.

Although I do miss my old R80g/s

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
knutk said:
This post started out debating Euro 5, and , as more or less always, it has escalated beyond recognition. I will herby add my contribution to the OT :beerjug:

Lots of post are covering the complexity of the bike, as compared to previous bikes, and people marvel back to the 1150 and the early 1200GS for their simplicity.

All I can say is, history repeats it self.
When the 1150 was launched, lots of riders complained about the added complexity as compared to the R100 series. For as long as I remember, there has always been people that shy new technology and instead of reading up on the latest technology, they plug their behind deep into their chair and spend the time complaining.

In my point of view the 1250 is mechanically not very complex. The bike is well built, and the required maintenance is well within the capability for anyone capable of reading a manual.
Further, the computers are the best thing that ever happened to modern vehicles. I remember when we had to change and adjust the points for ignition, cleaning carburetors, changing float needles etc. and we needed all kinds of gauges for adjusting the engine and for general diagnostic work. The cost of the diagnostic equipment in todays money are cheaper than what we had to pay for the ignition lamp/dwellmeter/multimeter etc. back then.

This all boils down to that the newer stuff is in many ways simpler to work on than the old stuff, but it requires that we pull our head out of the bucket and learn how the new stuff works. And frankly, it's not that hard if one only sets the mind to it rather then spend all the efforts on resisting changes. Lets face it. The World will keep spinning, whether we like it or not. :okay
Click to expand...
You've raised a good point there knutk, as ever. Change is often perceived initially with distrust then eventually realised as being good, not just in the bike world but in the world at large!

However your post does miss one point - which I'm sure you're aware of but simply forgotten to mention - and that's the fact that much of the negativity towards euro 5 is not in relation to maintenance but in respect of tuning. Each iteration of euro emissions regs seems to make it more difficult to make meaningful mods to bikes. As you're only too aware, bike owners in general do like fettling with their iron steeds so, having ever tightening limitations placed on this aspect of bike ownership is not likely to go down well.

Your level of technical ability is way beyond that of many on this site, so perhaps for you the changes are not so daunting - but to me and possibly others, euro 5 seems almost to be the death nell of the aftermarket tuning industry.

Hopefully you're about to tell me that I'm wrong on all counts. :D;)
 
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