Excess vibration on my 12 GS1200 ??

pitternator

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Hi guys, I have owned my 12 plate GS1200 from new.Have racked up 12k miles by DEc 2013. I have resisted posting up on forum cos my experience could just be down to me. But I really would welcome comment . I bought my GS after many tests on several bikes , and decided on the GS cos it fitted me, it ran well, and seemed to tick all the boxes as a tourer but with the chance to do a bit of green laning. Add in a fantastic deal and it really was easy to buy. Within 2 months of owning I had ridden a 3000 mile euro tour and tbh I had no real issues except the screen which I tried a givi 330 and then came back to stock as I preferred its look. My problems seemed to start after the 6000 mile service in Jan 2013. I know twins can be lumpy, but post service I thought my bike had a bolt loose it shook so much. This was a trembling shudder felt through the whole bike worst on a wide ( but not full) throttle at motorway speeds, but present almost all the time. I had aR1200R as a loan bike when it went in for service and that felt like silk ! I phoned dealer straight back and they claimed " they all do that sir"...which was the start of months of protracted shenanigans with my supplying dealer.Initially as it was winter I was using the bike just occasionally and not at big speeds, so I put it on the back burner. I went on a small tour to Wales in March which was very wet , and so the bike felt fine given it was mostly low speed work . It all came to a head when I set off in June for another euro tour and the shuddering began almost as soon as got on the M1, and it was there all th etime I was riding at motorway speed with any sort of load. I also had a headlamp blow too, something which has never happened before on any bike I have ridden....cut a longstory short I went back to dealer in July askingfor a full investigation under warranty...I got what seemed a cursory exam of the bike and claims that myaftermarket tyres and screen( a GSA type) were the cause, and in any case " they all do that" was blurted out yet again.....fine, so why did I have same in January with EXP and stock screen ?? Thus began the daft part of the affair with BMW refusing to acknowledge there was any chance it could be a fault on the bike, and that they all do that . Matters took another turn when the bike stopped with fuel pump issue,was recovered to my house, and promptly started again ! , and same dealer said they couldnt look at the bike for 10 days or give out a loan bike...the fault was intermittent and bike did start, a mate of mine had the gizmo to read fault codes , and I rode the bike to his house. Whereupon, just 2 weeks after being told the bike was fine...found 4 error codes -including throttle bodies and fuel pump. Guess what ? , bike broke down with full pump controller failure on way home ! Cynics might say I shouldnt have ridden bike, but with an intermittent fault , and 10 days with no bike ??. BMW assist collected me from side of M6 , and I called customer service at BMW HQ and insisted they take bike to another dealer...which they refused to do ! FFS I couldnt believe the scenario. How can I take bike back to same dealer who had already pronounced it fit for task with 4 error codes showing ??What I did get was a promise to send a bmw field engineer out to examine the bike. Whether this happened I only have the dealers word , as there was no direct comms between him and me, just the dealer saying he had sight of an email I sent to the dealer explaining my issues.... It all stunk of fish tbh , and when the dealer claimed the same engineer had ridden my bike and come up with " new settings" to calm down the vibes...I was more than just suspicious.I mean, just where can new settings come from ? given the r &d on a GS ! Its almost preposterous...:blast
Situation now is the bike still vibrates, but not as bad as before, and its always worst at throttle openings which put the engine under load....

My own thoughts are the bike runs way too lean, it has fantastic mpg , but is this at the expense of too weak a mixture?...having read the threads on Hilltop remps( its very close to me) ..whats the opinion ? Is it worth a remap?...have any other 1200 hex owners had anything like my experience...or do indeed " they all do that"....?

I also have grave worries over my warranty , and just how much would a extended warranty cost ?...cos I still dont believe there aint something wrong somewhere on the bike. It will take something now to convince me otherwise, and certainly not anything my dealer says...:(
 
.... And breathe...

Just two tips, mate...

1. Try to set out your problem so that bods can look at it without reading your life history.

2. Mixing several questions into one may not help you get an answer to your main problem.

As to your two easy to answer questions....

(a) Hilltop. There are lots of threads on UKGSer singing the place's praises to the heavens, enough to leave one reasonably confident that theirs is indeed a wonderful service.

(b) Any BMW dealer (not just the one you have fallen out with) and / or the BMW Motorrad website will tell you what BMW's extended warranty costs and its terms. There are alternative products available, too. From many posts on the subject, some bods swear by the idea of extending the warranty, others swear at it. Make your own mind up.
 
Your problem sounds very much like the Throttle Bodies being out of balance, so i would look at that first.
 
Wapping said:
.... And breathe...

Just two tips, mate...

1. Try to set out your problem so that bods can look at it without reading your life history.

2. Mixing several questions into one may not help you get an answer to your main problem.

As to your two easy to answer questions....

(a) Hilltop. There are lots of threads on UKGSer singing the place's praises to the heavens, enough to leave one reasonably confident that theirs is indeed a wonderful service.

(b) Any BMW dealer (not just the one you have fallen out with) and / or the BMW Motorrad website will tell you what BMW's extended warranty costs and its terms. There are alternative products available, too. From many posts on the subject, some bods swear by the idea of extending the warranty, others swear at it. Make your own mind up.
Click to expand...


I just skipped straight to your post..............:thumb


Al:)
 
well tbh I only provided the background to my issues. If I just posted has anyone had excess vibes, would that have made sense.?

There is no mixing of problems. Its excess vibes, which I cant find a direct cause ( could be throttle synch , but this is supposedly sorted by dealer), vibes still remain.My own thoughts are weak mix because of its so apparent under power / load. I mentioned hilltop to see if anyone has had a vibe issue which has been improved by having the mapping ( or any other work done).Indeed I wanted a straw poll of " do they all do that ".

I also was asking what extra warranty has cost so I can decide if my dealer is offering a good deal.
 
Clearly difficult to know the issue however, many have had good results around smoothing out their bikes with a hilltop remap. My own personal experience havering recently taken delivery of 1200tc is that the vibes are more intrusive than my old 1200.... However, this could just be a miles thing and now with 2.5k on the clock it has smoothed out considerably...but still not as good as my old 1200.

A pall of mine also has a 1200tc with a remap. We stopped bikes recently and boy what a difference. He said mine felt like his pre remap bike....I couldn't get over the difference in his. It did feel a little quicker but not much....personally I don't care....if the remap smooths my bike out to the same extent then it is worth it for that alone.....I will be taking a trip up north sometime in the New Year to hilltop.

Interestingly, when he went there was another guy with a TC with a few more miles on the clock but same model year....their initial read outs were quite different on the fuel air mix.....surely they should be the same all other things being equal....but apparently not...so you may just have a bad one....sounds like a trip to hilltop is worth a go....and personally I would go for this rather than pay for the warranty extension....you can always pick it up in the following year.....as Wapping says, there are plenty of products out there.

Cheers
M
 
How would you compare the GS to your previous experiences with the Yamaha Fazers ?
 
I have an 08 GSA (pre twin cam). It vibrates but not the same (or as intrusively) as a Yamaha Diversion 900. The BMW had an intermittent coarse vibration which was only resolved when both primary spark coils were replaced. Forum searches will find threads about testing for coil failures.

BMW North Oxford service manager said a failing coil can cause vibration and the old coils (like mine) will both fail within near enough the same mileage. He also said a failing coil is found by resolving symptoms that can be examined. There is no fault code for a failing coil. Anyone who simplistically plugs in the analyser wont find a coil fault like they would on most cars.

I'm sure that if I lived closer, I would have taken the bike to Geoff at Hilltop. he would have saved me the cost of a lambda sensor, a great deal of hassle and I'd have had it remapped at the same time. There is little he does not know about these engines.

I had Rox anti vibration risers on the Yam which worked well. They were not as effective on the BMW so it's gone back to standard bar mounts. I may try some Fasst tuned mass dampers. Shame I cant justify their handlebars.
 
pitternator said:
Hi guys, I have owned my 12 plate GS1200 from new.Have racked up 12k miles by DEc 2013. I have resisted posting up on forum cos my experience could just be down to me. But I really would welcome comment . I bought my GS after many tests on several bikes , and decided on the GS cos it fitted me, it ran well, and seemed to tick all the boxes as a tourer but with the chance to do a bit of green laning. Add in a fantastic deal and it really was easy to buy. Within 2 months of owning I had ridden a 3000 mile euro tour and tbh I had no real issues except the screen which I tried a givi 330 and then came back to stock as I preferred its look. My problems seemed to start after the 6000 mile service in Jan 2013. I know twins can be lumpy, but post service I thought my bike had a bolt loose it shook so much. This was a trembling shudder felt through the whole bike worst on a wide ( but not full) throttle at motorway speeds, but present almost all the time. I had aR1200R as a loan bike when it went in for service and that felt like silk ! I phoned dealer straight back and they claimed " they all do that sir"...which was the start of months of protracted shenanigans with my supplying dealer.Initially as it was winter I was using the bike just occasionally and not at big speeds, so I put it on the back burner. I went on a small tour to Wales in March which was very wet , and so the bike felt fine given it was mostly low speed work . It all came to a head when I set off in June for another euro tour and the shuddering began almost as soon as got on the M1, and it was there all th etime I was riding at motorway speed with any sort of load. I also had a headlamp blow too, something which has never happened before on any bike I have ridden....cut a longstory short I went back to dealer in July askingfor a full investigation under warranty...I got what seemed a cursory exam of the bike and claims that myaftermarket tyres and screen( a GSA type) were the cause, and in any case " they all do that" was blurted out yet again.....fine, so why did I have same in January with EXP and stock screen ?? Thus began the daft part of the affair with BMW refusing to acknowledge there was any chance it could be a fault on the bike, and that they all do that . Matters took another turn when the bike stopped with fuel pump issue,was recovered to my house, and promptly started again ! , and same dealer said they couldnt look at the bike for 10 days or give out a loan bike...the fault was intermittent and bike did start, a mate of mine had the gizmo to read fault codes , and I rode the bike to his house. Whereupon, just 2 weeks after being told the bike was fine...found 4 error codes -including throttle bodies and fuel pump. Guess what ? , bike broke down with full pump controller failure on way home ! Cynics might say I shouldnt have ridden bike, but with an intermittent fault , and 10 days with no bike ??. BMW assist collected me from side of M6 , and I called customer service at BMW HQ and insisted they take bike to another dealer...which they refused to do ! FFS I couldnt believe the scenario. How can I take bike back to same dealer who had already pronounced it fit for task with 4 error codes showing ??What I did get was a promise to send a bmw field engineer out to examine the bike. Whether this happened I only have the dealers word , as there was no direct comms between him and me, just the dealer saying he had sight of an email I sent to the dealer explaining my issues.... It all stunk of fish tbh , and when the dealer claimed the same engineer had ridden my bike and come up with " new settings" to calm down the vibes...I was more than just suspicious.I mean, just where can new settings come from ? given the r &d on a GS ! Its almost preposterous...:blast
Situation now is the bike still vibrates, but not as bad as before, and its always worst at throttle openings which put the engine under load....

My own thoughts are the bike runs way too lean, it has fantastic mpg , but is this at the expense of too weak a mixture?...having read the threads on Hilltop remps( its very close to me) ..whats the opinion ? Is it worth a remap?...have any other 1200 hex owners had anything like my experience...or do indeed " they all do that"....?

I also have grave worries over my warranty , and just how much would a extended warranty cost ?...cos I still dont believe there aint something wrong somewhere on the bike. It will take something now to convince me otherwise, and certainly not anything my dealer says...:(
Click to expand...

Hope you get it sorted :)
 
Hi mate,

Vibration is a very difficult problem to sort. I have a 2005 that drove me mad during summer. In the end I used to avoid motorway journeys because of the vibration. How did I sort it? Well I didn't really sort it unfortunately just improved it slightly.

1. valve clearances must be spot on (easy to do on this bike)
2. Throttle bodies must also be spot on (again easy to do)
3. Renewed primary coils (24K 2005 bike) at a cost of £170 :(
4. Installed a PCIII USB with custom map and disconnected O2 sensors
5. Injected Si into handlebars

All these changes have made it slightly more bareable but still not what I would call acceptable - but then again I do also have 3 Jap bikes to compare it with :) Items 1 and 2 probably made the biggest difference.

Good luck.

SJ
 
pitternator said:
well tbh I only provided the background to my issues. If I just posted has anyone had excess vibes, would that have made sense.?

There is no mixing of problems. Its excess vibes, which I cant find a direct cause ( could be throttle synch , but this is supposedly sorted by dealer), vibes still remain.My own thoughts are weak mix because of its so apparent under power / load. I mentioned hilltop to see if anyone has had a vibe issue which has been improved by having the mapping ( or any other work done).Indeed I wanted a straw poll of " do they all do that ".

I also was asking what extra warranty has cost so I can decide if my dealer is offering a good deal.
Click to expand...

.... As nobody, least of all you, has any real idea how or why your bike is vibrating (though that won't stop them suggesting or guessing at possible reasons and solutions) it's impossible to tell if a visit to Hilltop will sort it out. Ring them up and ask them, perhaps? Better still, as you live close by, vibrate your way round to see them and ask them to have a gander at your bike.

As to how much the BMW (insured) extended warranty costs? Ask BMW to give you a quote online at:

https://www.motorrad-warranty.co.uk/Login/Index

Want an alternative quote from an alternative insurer? Google: extended warranty motorcycle

Don't just look at the premiums on offer; read the policies / terms and conditions before decide which if any to buy.



Here's my vote in your straw pole: Yes, they all do that. Sometimes.
 
Wapping said:
.... As nobody, least of all you, has any real idea how or why your bike is vibrating (though that won't stop them suggesting or guessing at possible reasons and solutions) it's impossible to tell if a visit to Hilltop will sort it out. Ring them up and ask them, perhaps? Better still, as you live close by, vibrate your way round to see them and ask them to have a gander at your bike.

As to how much the BMW (insured) extended warranty costs? Ask BMW to give you a quote online at:

https://www.motorrad-warranty.co.uk/Login/Index

Want an alternative quote from an alternative insurer? Google: extended warranty motorcycle

Don't just look at the premiums on offer; read the policies / terms and conditions before decide which if any to buy.



Here's my vote in your straw pole: Yes, they all do that. Sometimes.
Click to expand...

The reason it won't stop people from making suggestions or giving their opinions are for two very good reasons...

A) it's a forum.
B) the OP asked for them.
 
.... And (having ploughed through his block of script) your suggestions are?

I have suggested how he might find out if Hilltop can help him (his second question) and how to find out how much BMW extended warranty costs, along with its alternatives (his third question).

As to why his bike is vibrating I have no idea; as others say in their replies, there could be lots of reasons. It may well have speeded the demise of his H7 bulb (he's never had a blown bulb before, but he'll get used to them at roughly 8,000 mile intervals on his 1200) but the bulb itself certainly didn't create the vibrations, nor did the failed fuel pump controller he tells us about.

He's clearly fallen out with his local dealer out of frustration (not an uncommon occurrence on UKGSer, though the causes do vary) so he's clutching at straws....and to his mate with the diagnostic tool.

Now it's your turn. At least vote in his straw pole, it's fun.
 
Wapping, as ever your suggestions are valid....I agree the email was a little on the heavy side, possibly an indication of the OPs frustration. And you are right...I have no idea what is wrong with his bike...if anything. Others have no idea either and no one is suggesting they do but in the spirit of trying to help are pointing out the (many) reasons why the OP might be experiencing harsher vibrations than normal...what ever that is. My point here is that you don't need to diss them to get your valuable input across.


...and on the straw pole, I am only voting if there is a "depends" option!

Merry Christmas
 
it all harks back to the service does it not? if you search you will find quite a few others who have come away from a service with issues, things can be done wrong, bits get disturbed (coils being prime) and even dealers may upload new ecu maps and >fixes< or mods (different plugs by accident or design?)

given what you think of the dealer I would honestly consider getting a good independent to do the service again and re trace all the bits of the bike that came off, got changed or set up, if you do find the issue send the bill to the dealer, may not get you far but will cause some embarrassment possibly

to be fair to the dealer its also known that a bike getting set up properly can expose issues like vibes that were not perceptible before, so it may turn out that its not a service issue as such, but that's where I would start and lay my money

hope you get it sorted:thumb
 
It would seem that your vibration issues are combustion issues based on what you post: The many explosions per second aren't as precise as they should be.

I would check the air filter is clean, valve clearances are correct, spark plugs are good (probably fit new anyway), stick coils are visually okay, then get throttle bodies set up accurately with idle stepper motors parked followed by idle stepper reset. For this you need a GS911. I would also check the output from throttle body sensor with GS911.

If the fault is still there, I would suspect a poor spark from a stick coil when under load, or a poor air/fuel map. A remap on a rolling road under load conditions would optimise your air/fuel ratio and spark advance but no point really until the engine is set up properly eg valves and throttle balance. These engines do run very lean as standard, too lean IMO.
It may also highlight other faults such as cam/crank angle sensors or Lambdas being faulty.

Search on here for Steptoes advice about stick coil fault diagnosis methods.

As an aside, my own bike (2008 Pre twin-cam )seems smoother once it has been revved to high rpm, perhaps yours is the same?
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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