that sort of makes sense then.
Experiences/views of 1200GSA with low first gear, please
- Thread starter RSavage
- Start date
I think that's RSavage's point.....
I know exactly what he's talking about. If you stop on a Pass for a photo opportunity, facing uphill, moving off you have to dial in so much revs whilst slipping the clutch you can smell the clutch cooking!!
....does the Enduro box help on that?.....a little I guess...just like it helps a little on tight hairpins.
At the end of the day it does help, and if it helps then it's a good thing!
.....I've never really understood people's adverse opinion on opting for the Enduro box?...like you're trying to spec a bike for the Dakar, then ride it to Tescos!
It's an aid to your everyday riding, and handy on tours, and in the Passes. It's not so noticable that you'd regret the decission because it changes your bike's characteristics.
It's a very subtle change in the overall bike, but a good/positive/handy upgrade....and it's free!!!!!
If it was a cost option, then I'd say, depending on price, that you could argue that it's a waste of time and money.....but as it's free then it's well worth getting it.
......and I'm sure most people who've got a strong opinion of the Enduro box, and it's merits, haven't even ridden a bike with it fitted?....cos most, if not all, owners that have had it fitted seem happy enough. 
I know exactly what he's talking about. If you stop on a Pass for a photo opportunity, facing uphill, moving off you have to dial in so much revs whilst slipping the clutch you can smell the clutch cooking!!
....does the Enduro box help on that?.....a little I guess...just like it helps a little on tight hairpins.
At the end of the day it does help, and if it helps then it's a good thing!
.....I've never really understood people's adverse opinion on opting for the Enduro box?...like you're trying to spec a bike for the Dakar, then ride it to Tescos!It's an aid to your everyday riding, and handy on tours, and in the Passes. It's not so noticable that you'd regret the decission because it changes your bike's characteristics.
It's a very subtle change in the overall bike, but a good/positive/handy upgrade....and it's free!!!!!
If it was a cost option, then I'd say, depending on price, that you could argue that it's a waste of time and money.....but as it's free then it's well worth getting it.
......and I'm sure most people who've got a strong opinion of the Enduro box, and it's merits, haven't even ridden a bike with it fitted?
....cos most, if not all, owners that have had it fitted seem happy enough. 
I think that's RSavage's point.....
I know exactly what he's talking about. If you stop on a Pass for a photo opportunity, facing uphill, moving off you have to dial in so much revs whilst slipping the clutch you can smell the clutch cooking!!
....does the Enduro box help on that?.....a little I guess...just like it helps a little on tight hairpins.
At the end of the day it does help, and if it helps then it's a good thing!
It's an aid to your everyday riding, and handy on tours, and in the Passes. It's not so noticable that you'd regret the decission because it changes your bike's characteristics.
It's a very subtle change in the overall bike, but a good/positive/handy upgrade....and it's free!!!!!
If it was a cost option, then I'd say, depending on price, that you could argue that it's a waste of time and money.....but as it's free then it's well worth getting it.
......and I'm sure most people who've got a strong opinion of the Enduro box, and it's merits, haven't even ridden a bike with it fitted?
Exactly.
And as this is another '10 year' bike for me I'm going to investigate the cost of rebuilding the 'box with the low gear compared with the cost to change to a 1200GSA with enduro box.
Thanks
Richard
Hmm! Yes just a bit too much. But don't be too overly concerned. The clutch plate is more durable than you might think.
Using the bike for instructing puts a lot of pressure on the clutch, and still 80'000 miles isn't unusual. My 1200 clutch has smoked occasionally in exactly the situation you describe. There are no long term issues or problems such as juddering or the like.
I gave the old thing a good spanking up the Stelvio Pass last year, touching 90mph at times. Yeh the whole bike was singing with heat at the top and yes the cluch was a bit pongy, (even the TKC's were sweating) but no long term issues. And that's after 55000 miles of instructing.
A low first gear will always make a difference to pulling away simply by the virtue of it being a lower ratio.
I have a crawler gear on my truck which is a godsend when trying to get moving on steep hills. However if I had to use it as my only pullaway/first gear it would be a total pain.
Val.
Hmm! Yes just a bit too much. But don't be too overly concerned. The clutch plate is more durable than you might think.
Using the bike for instructing puts a lot of pressure on the clutch, and still 80'000 miles isn't unusual. My 1200 clutch has smoked occasionally in exactly the situation you describe. There are no long term issues or problems such as juddering or the like.
I gave the old thing a good spanking up the Stelvio Pass last year, touching 90mph at times. Yeh the whole bike was singing with heat at the top and yes the cluch was a bit pongy, (even the TKC's were sweating) but no long term issues. And that's after 55000 miles of instructing.
A low first gear will always make a difference to pulling away simply by the virtue of it being a lower ratio.
I have a crawler gear on my truck which is a godsend when trying to get moving on steep hills. However if I had to use it as my only pullaway/first gear it would be a total pain.
Val.
Hi Val
Your experiences of smelly clutches are reassuring. I'm just extremely wary about such a foolish device as a dry clutch in a motorbike. Or at least one that can't be changed without major trauma.
Cheers
Richard
many more dry clutches are changed because they get contaminated with oil, than because they wear out.
IME they usually last ages.
WindyChuffer
Registered user
Let us know how you get on. Will be interested to know the cost.
silvio
Registered user
I ordered mine with the Low First Gear.
It honestly does not feel so short a ratio at all.
How can I check if I really have it installed or not? Dealer could have forgotten it, how can i find out?
thanks to all,
silvio
It honestly does not feel so short a ratio at all.
How can I check if I really have it installed or not? Dealer could have forgotten it, how can i find out?
thanks to all,
silvio
WindyChuffer
Registered user
Ring up BMW Customer Services - they will have details of the bike and all options etc on their computer in front of them.
silvio
Registered user
Thanks a lot, will do that.
silvio
silvio
Thanks Cookie
A valuable service you have performed there, Helmut.
A bod who can't tell whether it is fitted or not. If it is, he'll be happy. If it's not he'll be unhappy, but only because paid for it, not because he missed it.
Possibly sums up the low-gear ratio question rather neatly for some potential buyers.
PS How can you find out? Apparently you have to ride lots of tricky hairpins. If the clutch bursts into flames or melts in a pong of rotting fish.... it's not. If it doesn't..... it is. Note: This may not be absolutely true or particularly reliable.
.......or maybe yours had it all along and it's you that never knew it?!?!
....p.s....it's free, so no financial gain for the dealer in pulling a fast one....the only difference would maybe be a longer delivery date.
.......or maybe yours had it all along and it's you that never knew it?!?!
And a giant bat may have lived in the panniers, too
....p.s....it's free, so no financial gain for the dealer in pulling a fast one....the only difference would maybe be a longer delivery date.
Thanks for that piece of news. It must be the only thing (other than lower seats for dwarves) that comes free.
And a giant bat may have lived in the panniers, too
and I thought the banging was your FD on the way out!!!
SJPB1982
Registered user
My first 1200 GSA with the enduro package and it was very good around town and for low speed operations (and fords).
On my second one I didn't specify it as it meant a longer wait for delivery (ones without were in stock) and originally thought I had made a mistake but after a few thousand miles I reckon it doesn't make a difference 99% of the time. I think that if you intend to ride off road a lot then its worth it but otherwise I would stick with the standard 'box if you ride on the road most of the time as you have to shift to 2nd quickly to get better acceleration as the low first gear runs out quickly.
All that said I don't think you would be dissapointed with either.
On my second one I didn't specify it as it meant a longer wait for delivery (ones without were in stock) and originally thought I had made a mistake but after a few thousand miles I reckon it doesn't make a difference 99% of the time. I think that if you intend to ride off road a lot then its worth it but otherwise I would stick with the standard 'box if you ride on the road most of the time as you have to shift to 2nd quickly to get better acceleration as the low first gear runs out quickly.
All that said I don't think you would be dissapointed with either.
Gear ratios: Enduro and Standard
Off to Vines at Guildford today to test a GSA with Enduro gearbox.
For those that are interested the gearing is as follows:
Standard first gear: 2.375 (38:16 teeth)
Enduro first gear: 2.600 (39:15 teeth)
Final drive for both is 1,737 and all other gears are identical.
Vines at Caterham have said that a gearbox rebuild is not an option due to the introduction of new parts to a run-in gearbox (*) and suggested that a gearbox swap is around £2,500 (new 'box plus labour) which is about £1,000 less than a new bike for me.
* that doesn't bode well for the cost of repairing a failed gearbox, unless they simply part-ex like for like.
I'll let you know how I got on.
Richard
PS I understand that you can buy an 'authority' gearbox in Germany with even lower gearing suited to escort work. This is not available in UK so would have to be bought in Euros for a lot more that the Sterling price here.
R
Off to Vines at Guildford today to test a GSA with Enduro gearbox.
For those that are interested the gearing is as follows:
Standard first gear: 2.375 (38:16 teeth)
Enduro first gear: 2.600 (39:15 teeth)
Final drive for both is 1,737 and all other gears are identical.
Vines at Caterham have said that a gearbox rebuild is not an option due to the introduction of new parts to a run-in gearbox (*) and suggested that a gearbox swap is around £2,500 (new 'box plus labour) which is about £1,000 less than a new bike for me.
* that doesn't bode well for the cost of repairing a failed gearbox, unless they simply part-ex like for like.
I'll let you know how I got on.
Richard
PS I understand that you can buy an 'authority' gearbox in Germany with even lower gearing suited to escort work. This is not available in UK so would have to be bought in Euros for a lot more that the Sterling price here.
R
Last edited:
WindyChuffer
Registered user
Complete and utter bollox; typical of the shyte that main dealers spout. Their mode of operation is to replace rather than repair.
Of course gearboxes can be opened, hacked around and bits replaced.
Personally, I'd investigate going to an independant mechanic that likes getting his hands dirty and getting him to change the first gear bit(s) for you.
Unless of course its an excuse for a new bike....and there's nothing wrong with that !
Now that's interesting.
Re. 'hacking gearboxes' that was exactly my thought.
Anyway, having ridden an Enduro GSA around Friday Street, Box Hill and any other slopes I could find around Guildford and through the traffic of Guildford town centre, and then repeating the same trip on my non-Enduro GSA, I've reached the following conclusion:
I cannot understand why anyone would want a standard 'boxed GSA if they could have one with an Enduro box and badly regret not buying one so fitted originally. Hill starts are better, trickling through traffic is no longer a debate between clutch-slip or inelegant lurches, pulling out from those dodgy blind T junctions is a thing of the past. I asked Vines why they don't supply all GSAs with the Enduro box and make the 'standard' box the no-cost option. They agree that it's mad!
Allowing for my hyperbole above, here is a direct comparison: the Enduro box will happily trickle along (on the flat) using just tickover, i.e. no throttle input, and with no clutch slip. My GSA won't. Idle speeds appear the same so please don't raise that as a reason.
Richard
SJD
Registered user
Iv had my GSA a couple of weeks now,due for its first service now with about 580 miles on it.
Did ask about the enduro 'box when i ordered the bike..but told it may be several more weeks 'till it came..dont bother then,i said.
So nearly 600 miles done now in slow traffic,fast traffic up steep tight lanes in West and East Yorkshire..and it never even crossed my mind the lack of a short first gear.
I didn't buy it to go off-road,and why would anyone want to trickle along just on idle without throttle..why increase the chances of the thing stalling and having you and the bike on the deck.
I know its a no cost option but..im not missing it..depends what you gonna do with your GSA.
Did ask about the enduro 'box when i ordered the bike..but told it may be several more weeks 'till it came..dont bother then,i said.
So nearly 600 miles done now in slow traffic,fast traffic up steep tight lanes in West and East Yorkshire..and it never even crossed my mind the lack of a short first gear.
I didn't buy it to go off-road,and why would anyone want to trickle along just on idle without throttle..why increase the chances of the thing stalling and having you and the bike on the deck.
I know its a no cost option but..im not missing it..depends what you gonna do with your GSA.
Similar threads
