Flip top Helmets
- Thread starter Stumpy
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The BMW system 4 helmets are very comfy but I'm not sure if they can be ridden fully open.
The Roof helmet however looks really cool and can be worn fully open. I'm looking forwards to the responses as I'm in the market for a new lid myself and it will definately be a flip top type.
Anyone tried the roof and if so is it quiet/comfy???
The Roof helmet however looks really cool and can be worn fully open. I'm looking forwards to the responses as I'm in the market for a new lid myself and it will definately be a flip top type.
Anyone tried the roof and if so is it quiet/comfy???
Simon Eassom
Guest
To my knowledge, the Roof is the only helmet that doesn't carry the recommendation NOT to be word open; all others suggest that you should not ride with the helmet up. However, you often see people on Goldwings, K1200LTs, and the like, wearing theirs flipped up because they are protected by their large screens. But, the manufacturers would still tell you that they are not impact tested or designed to protect you in a fall without the chin bar fixed in place.
There have been a number of comments on the mailing list and in other threads about the Roof and the jury's out. There are a lot of negative comments, particularly about noise and comfort.
I've owned/possess three flip ups: a Vemar; a Shoei Synchrotec; and a Schuberth Concept. All are noisy. The Shoei is an excellent helmet, very comfortable and the least noisy for me. However, I like the Schuberth best. Like the BMW System 4 Evo, the visibility is superb, very good peripherally. Comfort is excellent. The Schuberth has a sun visor inside the visor. The BMW can be converted into a Jet style helmet or a motor-cross style helmet. My girlfriend has the BMW System 4 and in a small size (54) finds it quite heavy (because the shells are basically all the same size). At first it gave her neck ache. I have a size 61 Schuberth and find the weight pretty good compared to others.
Visor removal on both are excellent/easy. Ventilation on both is good, but the Schuberth has a neat visor mechanism that lets you pull the visor forwards to create an airflow underneath. Unfortunately it means that the seal isn't as good in the rain.
There are some very cheap flip-ups on the market now, but basically they'll wear out quicker inside (like my Vemar) and not feel as comfortable on your head.
The Shoei is the most expensive at £300 and I don't think it's worth the extra compared to Schuberth or BMW. Don't bother with the BMW Carbon. It actually feels unbalanced because the chinbar isn't Carbon (that's what I found anyway).
In summary . . . you'll find all flip-ups heavier and noisier than full good face helmets. In some cases you'll find full faces more comfortable. The advantage of the flip-up is the flip-up (going into petrol stations, having a fag or a bite to eat, snogging your partner - all impossible with a full face). The BMW and Schuberth feel very bright and airy with great visibility. The BMW can be converted to an open face. Personally I'd avoid the Roof unless you want it just for its radical looks.
Simon E.
There have been a number of comments on the mailing list and in other threads about the Roof and the jury's out. There are a lot of negative comments, particularly about noise and comfort.
I've owned/possess three flip ups: a Vemar; a Shoei Synchrotec; and a Schuberth Concept. All are noisy. The Shoei is an excellent helmet, very comfortable and the least noisy for me. However, I like the Schuberth best. Like the BMW System 4 Evo, the visibility is superb, very good peripherally. Comfort is excellent. The Schuberth has a sun visor inside the visor. The BMW can be converted into a Jet style helmet or a motor-cross style helmet. My girlfriend has the BMW System 4 and in a small size (54) finds it quite heavy (because the shells are basically all the same size). At first it gave her neck ache. I have a size 61 Schuberth and find the weight pretty good compared to others.
Visor removal on both are excellent/easy. Ventilation on both is good, but the Schuberth has a neat visor mechanism that lets you pull the visor forwards to create an airflow underneath. Unfortunately it means that the seal isn't as good in the rain.
There are some very cheap flip-ups on the market now, but basically they'll wear out quicker inside (like my Vemar) and not feel as comfortable on your head.
The Shoei is the most expensive at £300 and I don't think it's worth the extra compared to Schuberth or BMW. Don't bother with the BMW Carbon. It actually feels unbalanced because the chinbar isn't Carbon (that's what I found anyway).
In summary . . . you'll find all flip-ups heavier and noisier than full good face helmets. In some cases you'll find full faces more comfortable. The advantage of the flip-up is the flip-up (going into petrol stations, having a fag or a bite to eat, snogging your partner - all impossible with a full face). The BMW and Schuberth feel very bright and airy with great visibility. The BMW can be converted to an open face. Personally I'd avoid the Roof unless you want it just for its radical looks.
Simon E.
City Slicker
Guest
A comprehensive reply from Simon that leaves very little to add. Nicely done
Out of all the helmets I've had, flip front and full face the Sytem 4 Evo has been the best for noise/comfort/fogging. I regularly ride with it up in town, and originally bought it so I could convert it to an open face while riding on the continent. It seems well balanced up to about 45 when I am normally riding with it down anyway. In the last year I have cruised past many police bikes and cars without a second glance. I'm happy that I'm not going to get tugged for doing it, but am always aware that it is probably more dangerous to ride with it up and try to avoid it.
The one caveat to the helmet is that the fit between different helmets supposedly the same size is noticeable. I 'lost' a helmet in January and ordered another the same size and it wouldn't fit, ordered the next size up and it was uncomfortable; helmet was tighter and my chin caught on the spoiler. It was noisier and the visor fit was such that it scratched the helmet at the sides. I really dislike BMW for shit like this.
I had to live with that until this morning when I woke to find my garage burgled and among other things my helmet gone. I replaced it with another the same size as the last and it seemed absolutely perfect. I tried on the size samller and it seemed to fit about the same as my last one.
So, if you intend to buy a System 4 make sure the helmet you are going to buy, not the showroom demo or another helmet of a different colour, fits you perfectly. If not then ask to try on another helmet and it may just fit. Unfortunately very few dealers have a vast stock so good luck.
Just FYI - Sawbridgeworth BMW in Hertford have a plentiful supply of black and white helmets and as a result sold me one for £200. Last month a buddy of mine also bought one for the same price from them. They may even have the dark visors and are the only BMW dealers I know prepared to stock them.
Out of all the helmets I've had, flip front and full face the Sytem 4 Evo has been the best for noise/comfort/fogging. I regularly ride with it up in town, and originally bought it so I could convert it to an open face while riding on the continent. It seems well balanced up to about 45 when I am normally riding with it down anyway. In the last year I have cruised past many police bikes and cars without a second glance. I'm happy that I'm not going to get tugged for doing it, but am always aware that it is probably more dangerous to ride with it up and try to avoid it.
The one caveat to the helmet is that the fit between different helmets supposedly the same size is noticeable. I 'lost' a helmet in January and ordered another the same size and it wouldn't fit, ordered the next size up and it was uncomfortable; helmet was tighter and my chin caught on the spoiler. It was noisier and the visor fit was such that it scratched the helmet at the sides. I really dislike BMW for shit like this.
I had to live with that until this morning when I woke to find my garage burgled and among other things my helmet gone. I replaced it with another the same size as the last and it seemed absolutely perfect. I tried on the size samller and it seemed to fit about the same as my last one.
So, if you intend to buy a System 4 make sure the helmet you are going to buy, not the showroom demo or another helmet of a different colour, fits you perfectly. If not then ask to try on another helmet and it may just fit. Unfortunately very few dealers have a vast stock so good luck.
Just FYI - Sawbridgeworth BMW in Hertford have a plentiful supply of black and white helmets and as a result sold me one for £200. Last month a buddy of mine also bought one for the same price from them. They may even have the dark visors and are the only BMW dealers I know prepared to stock them.
Deadskin
Registered user
System 4
Hi
Had mine for a year now got it from spc £120 bassalt grey
to match my ex K1200lt.
Nice and comfy and works well on the 1150 ,
one word of warning when walking about with the chin bar up
you've added a few inches in height, i've often hit my up and over garage door
mark
Hi
Had mine for a year now got it from spc £120 bassalt grey
to match my ex K1200lt.
Nice and comfy and works well on the 1150 ,
one word of warning when walking about with the chin bar up
you've added a few inches in height, i've often hit my up and over garage door
mark
Howard Millichap
Registered user
I'm on my second Nolan N100. I find it comfy.
The visor can be taken off resonably quickly for cleaning etc.. It can also be fitted with the "Pinlock" antimisting system.
I wear ear plugs everywhere except trail riding so I cannot judge if it's quiet compared to others.
The only down side is that it requires two hands to open the front but I think it was designed like that to discourage us from riding with the front open. As Simon E. said, they are not safety tested when open.
I noticed in MCN this week (17/07 02) that Carnel/City has slashed the price of these to £120.
The visor can be taken off resonably quickly for cleaning etc.. It can also be fitted with the "Pinlock" antimisting system.
I wear ear plugs everywhere except trail riding so I cannot judge if it's quiet compared to others.
The only down side is that it requires two hands to open the front but I think it was designed like that to discourage us from riding with the front open. As Simon E. said, they are not safety tested when open.
I noticed in MCN this week (17/07 02) that Carnel/City has slashed the price of these to £120.
Simon Eassom
Guest
City Slicker . . . bad news about your garage. Scumbags! Didn't touch your bike did they? It happens round my way all the time. Although I own my garage it's in a block of 16 that regularly get done. Usually by druggies looking for somewhere dry and secluded to shoot up, so often nothing gets knicked but sometimes there's a bit of mindless vandalism. Since fitting a "Garage Defender" along with about three other neighbours, we haven't been touched.
Back to helmets . . . the JAI is very cheap. You could get them for £75 at the BMF, normally £99. Heine Gericke have a reasonable selection of 3 or 4 makes of flip-ups so you can try them out.
I'll second the comment about added height . . . I've smacked my helmet on the garage door several times (fortunately always my Vemar).
The only thing I'll add is that despite what richwi says on the other thread about helmets and intercoms, both the Schuberth and BMW are bloody awkward when it comes to fitting an Autocom headset. My Vemar and Shoei are great because they have removable cheek pads.
Simon E.
Back to helmets . . . the JAI is very cheap. You could get them for £75 at the BMF, normally £99. Heine Gericke have a reasonable selection of 3 or 4 makes of flip-ups so you can try them out.
I'll second the comment about added height . . . I've smacked my helmet on the garage door several times (fortunately always my Vemar).
The only thing I'll add is that despite what richwi says on the other thread about helmets and intercoms, both the Schuberth and BMW are bloody awkward when it comes to fitting an Autocom headset. My Vemar and Shoei are great because they have removable cheek pads.
Simon E.
Steve
Registered user
In my opinion, the coolest looking flip-up is the Lazer Revolution. Mine's fairly noisy, but I ususally wear earplugs anyway. It's a good fit, fast release seatbelt-type closure, one-handed flip up operation. Really cool-looking integral sun visor.
And, it doesn't make you look like one of the BMW-owning, Schubert/System 4 wearing crowd. It makes you look like Darth Vader instead....
And, it doesn't make you look like one of the BMW-owning, Schubert/System 4 wearing crowd. It makes you look like Darth Vader instead....
Attachments
richwi
Guest
Another Schuberth Concept owner here! Personally I think this is a GREAT helmet. Much better than the Arai I have worn for the past 5/6 years. Good ventialtion/options, sun visor is excellent and now I've had it, I wouldn't ever wear another helmet without one. I also find it very comfortable.
If I was buying again today, I'd also have a look at the Lazer revolution Steve mentions (also has a sun visor). It would have to be good to make me not want to replace with another Schuberth however.
Some people say they have problems with Schuberth's in the rain. I find that as long as you adjust the vents and visir accordingly (something I've never had to do with previous helmets), it's just find. Leave everything open and the water does get in!
Regarding the noise...it's better than my Arai, and the noise comes from the bike in the case of the GS. Occasionally I ride my old Z-650. No fairing....80mph, and very quiet. Standing on the pegs on the GS and the noise goes down 10 fold. Answer (and it's been said by many before), is to get a good set of ear plugs. I simply won't ride without them these days.
Regards,
Richard
If I was buying again today, I'd also have a look at the Lazer revolution Steve mentions (also has a sun visor). It would have to be good to make me not want to replace with another Schuberth however.
Some people say they have problems with Schuberth's in the rain. I find that as long as you adjust the vents and visir accordingly (something I've never had to do with previous helmets), it's just find. Leave everything open and the water does get in!
Regarding the noise...it's better than my Arai, and the noise comes from the bike in the case of the GS. Occasionally I ride my old Z-650. No fairing....80mph, and very quiet. Standing on the pegs on the GS and the noise goes down 10 fold. Answer (and it's been said by many before), is to get a good set of ear plugs. I simply won't ride without them these days.
Regards,
Richard
Steve
Registered user
richwi said:
So I suppose at the next meet you'll be wanting to try my helmet!! Think again big-boy!!
Steve.
andrew taylor
Guest
I've got a Roof Boxer helmet and I can't fault it, it's actually fairly quiet (compared to many) and I find it comfy enough. They really are great on hot sunny days, just watch out for large flies splattering on your face!
I guess different people get on better with different helmets so you just have to try a few to see which suits you best.
Andy.
I guess different people get on better with different helmets so you just have to try a few to see which suits you best.
Andy.
Simon Eassom
Guest
Of course we've all failed to mention that most important aspect: colour. My Schuberth is metallic blue, matches my Savannah suit, my blue and white 1150, my underpants, my language, and my eyes.
Personally I don't want to look like Darth Vader, but I hear it suits Steve very well.
I don't actually see many Schuberth's around, even on BMW riding bikers. I quite like wearing something other than an Arai, Shoei, Shark, Suomy, HJC, etc etc.
Like richwi, I think it's the flip-up I've owned and I don't suppose I'll buy anything different in the future.
Two things not mentioned . . . very easy one-handed operation and good helmet skirt that keeps out draughts.
Richard's point about noise levels dropping when he stands on the pegs says a lot about the main cause of turbulence and noise on the GS, which comes from the disturbed air around the base of the screen interfering with clutch and brake reservoirs. That's where most of the buffeting comes from as well.
I'm going to get a Cee-Bailey's Adventure screen, 2in wider than standard and 5 inches taller. Maybe I'll get some peace and quiet.
Simon E.
Personally I don't want to look like Darth Vader, but I hear it suits Steve very well.
I don't actually see many Schuberth's around, even on BMW riding bikers. I quite like wearing something other than an Arai, Shoei, Shark, Suomy, HJC, etc etc.
Like richwi, I think it's the flip-up I've owned and I don't suppose I'll buy anything different in the future.
Two things not mentioned . . . very easy one-handed operation and good helmet skirt that keeps out draughts.
Richard's point about noise levels dropping when he stands on the pegs says a lot about the main cause of turbulence and noise on the GS, which comes from the disturbed air around the base of the screen interfering with clutch and brake reservoirs. That's where most of the buffeting comes from as well.
I'm going to get a Cee-Bailey's Adventure screen, 2in wider than standard and 5 inches taller. Maybe I'll get some peace and quiet.
Simon E.
richwi
Guest
=========================================
QUOYTE from Steve Currell:
"So I suppose at the next meet you'll be wanting to try my helmet!! Think again big-boy!!"
=========================================
Steve,
It wouldn't fit, as your head's bigger than mine!
Regs,
Richard
QUOYTE from Steve Currell:
"So I suppose at the next meet you'll be wanting to try my helmet!! Think again big-boy!!"
=========================================
Steve,
It wouldn't fit, as your head's bigger than mine!
Regs,
Richard
Steve
Registered user
richwi said:
Rich,
quite a lot of me is bigger than you, but we won't go into that!!
Steve.
Steve
Registered user
Simon Eassom said:
I resemble that remark!! I'll make you pay for that. GS's at twenty paces, Monday 29th at Sarratt!!
And remember, the Force is with me...
Steve
Paul Crawford
Guest
flip tops
i have just bought a HJC flip top from Hein G in Edinburgh. Went out to play yesterday and did 150 miles. It is pretty quiet with ear plugs, and has velcro in ear pads to add for extra comfort, noise reduction.
This is my first flip top so can't really comment on the others. Looked at the Roof one but did not really like it (chin guard really close to your face), System 4 did not appeal and did not fit the image!! (if that makes sense)
The one minor complaint i have with the HJC is that the comfort padding/cheek padding is pretty thick and is not REALLY comfortable. Perhaps I am expecting immediate comfort and not realising that it does need to be "broken in"....
I will be visiting the HG shop this afternoon to see if this is the norm.
HJC price was £179 which i thought was pretty good.
Paul
i have just bought a HJC flip top from Hein G in Edinburgh. Went out to play yesterday and did 150 miles. It is pretty quiet with ear plugs, and has velcro in ear pads to add for extra comfort, noise reduction.
This is my first flip top so can't really comment on the others. Looked at the Roof one but did not really like it (chin guard really close to your face), System 4 did not appeal and did not fit the image!! (if that makes sense)
The one minor complaint i have with the HJC is that the comfort padding/cheek padding is pretty thick and is not REALLY comfortable. Perhaps I am expecting immediate comfort and not realising that it does need to be "broken in"....
I will be visiting the HG shop this afternoon to see if this is the norm.
HJC price was £179 which i thought was pretty good.
Paul
guitarman
Guest
4 posts in one night. It must be athletics on tele.
I've had a Nolan X-Lite for 3 years (£220 when I bought it). Comfortable, noisier than a full face but the benefits of being able to flip the front up (petrol stations, shops, putting on glasses) far outweigh the drawbacks (slightly noisier and heavier than my old Arai)
I ride with the front up in town and have ridden onthe open road like that when it's been stinking hot.
The front flips over the top and is out of the line of sight and doesn't catch the wind like my very old system 1 used to.
Didn't like the Roof as my chin was pressed up against the front bar, the Caberg doesn't flip up out of the line of site. The Lazer I tried was cheap and oozed cheapness.
Basically you get what you pay for. A £100 helmet is not going to be as well finished as a £250 helmet. It'll protect you just the same but maybe won't be as comfortable or durable.
Cheers
G
I've had a Nolan X-Lite for 3 years (£220 when I bought it). Comfortable, noisier than a full face but the benefits of being able to flip the front up (petrol stations, shops, putting on glasses) far outweigh the drawbacks (slightly noisier and heavier than my old Arai)
I ride with the front up in town and have ridden onthe open road like that when it's been stinking hot.
The front flips over the top and is out of the line of sight and doesn't catch the wind like my very old system 1 used to.
Didn't like the Roof as my chin was pressed up against the front bar, the Caberg doesn't flip up out of the line of site. The Lazer I tried was cheap and oozed cheapness.
Basically you get what you pay for. A £100 helmet is not going to be as well finished as a £250 helmet. It'll protect you just the same but maybe won't be as comfortable or durable.
Cheers
G
Stumpy,
Just got myself a system 4 concept helmet. Brilliant.
This is also my first flip up. The 'flip up' is easy to operate, the venting is good. The helmet is also pretty quiet, compared to my Arai of 6 years.
However, one of the most noticable differences is the helmet is so bloody light. It's carbon fibre. This should also mean it is a little cooler in warmer climates (not the UK then).
Cheers
Simon T
Just got myself a system 4 concept helmet. Brilliant.
This is also my first flip up. The 'flip up' is easy to operate, the venting is good. The helmet is also pretty quiet, compared to my Arai of 6 years.
However, one of the most noticable differences is the helmet is so bloody light. It's carbon fibre. This should also mean it is a little cooler in warmer climates (not the UK then).
Cheers
Simon T
Flip Helmet Alternative
As an alternative to flip-ups..... I use my top of the range Bell Motocross helmet. (with goggles) for summer riding. Much cooler than a full face/visor road type, yet still has the integral strength that flip-ups and open-face lack. Also the peak gives welcome shade when travelling south in cloudless weatherBest of all though..... you look like your a Paris-Dakar entrant rather than a Star Wars extra!!!
It is pretty noisy of course (at speed) but ear plugs take care of that.
.(I emphasise the 'top of the range' bit, as some of the very cheap MX helmets would probably not be up to standard in the protection stakes.... but then again, neither are cheap 'road' helmets are they?)
Will
As an alternative to flip-ups..... I use my top of the range Bell Motocross helmet. (with goggles) for summer riding. Much cooler than a full face/visor road type, yet still has the integral strength that flip-ups and open-face lack. Also the peak gives welcome shade when travelling south in cloudless weatherBest of all though..... you look like your a Paris-Dakar entrant rather than a Star Wars extra!!!
It is pretty noisy of course (at speed) but ear plugs take care of that.
.(I emphasise the 'top of the range' bit, as some of the very cheap MX helmets would probably not be up to standard in the protection stakes.... but then again, neither are cheap 'road' helmets are they?)
Will
Simon Eassom
Guest
I regularly ride with either an Axo (top of the range MX helmet) or an Ikon (very cheap . . . £89).
Pluses:
All the things just been said (although I actually don't find them much noisier), but also you can wear goggles with lenses of any colour/shade and you're not breaking the law in the way that you are with dark visors (stupid init). I wear clear at night, yellow in dull light, orange during the day, and iridium in bright sunlight (all interchangeable with my Scott goggles).
Also, very surprisingly, riding with helmet and goggles in rain gives much better visibility than looking through a visor (because the lens and raindrops are closer to your eyes it's easier to "see through" them without your brain being distracted. You need a scarf pulled up over your mouth and cheeks though because rain stings quite a bit at 80mph.
Minuses:
I actually find that my vision gets distorted at 80mph+. The goggles seem to move/vibrate slightly at that speed. Maybe it's the extra turbulence caused by the peak slightly moving the helmet. And ther're fairly useless with an intercom!
Riding around town with MX helmet and goggles, steel-capped boots, and standing up on the pegs is bit urban cowboy, totally naff and OTT, but the kids seem to love it much more than they drool over sportsbikes (not that I'm trying to pick up young kids or anything - oh hell, what have I gone and said now).
Pluses:
All the things just been said (although I actually don't find them much noisier), but also you can wear goggles with lenses of any colour/shade and you're not breaking the law in the way that you are with dark visors (stupid init). I wear clear at night, yellow in dull light, orange during the day, and iridium in bright sunlight (all interchangeable with my Scott goggles).
Also, very surprisingly, riding with helmet and goggles in rain gives much better visibility than looking through a visor (because the lens and raindrops are closer to your eyes it's easier to "see through" them without your brain being distracted. You need a scarf pulled up over your mouth and cheeks though because rain stings quite a bit at 80mph.
Minuses:
I actually find that my vision gets distorted at 80mph+. The goggles seem to move/vibrate slightly at that speed. Maybe it's the extra turbulence caused by the peak slightly moving the helmet. And ther're fairly useless with an intercom!
Riding around town with MX helmet and goggles, steel-capped boots, and standing up on the pegs is bit urban cowboy, totally naff and OTT, but the kids seem to love it much more than they drool over sportsbikes (not that I'm trying to pick up young kids or anything - oh hell, what have I gone and said now).
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