Flushing-is it rude not to?

[Explorer]

I am thinking of flushing out my engine with flushing oil for reasons gone into in another thread. Good idea or not? The engine has done 56K miles-does anyone have any experience of this? Looking at the web tonight some other bikers are reporting problems with the valve seatings which acquired a "memory effect" after seating on built up garbage-and therfore didn't seal properly after the flushing. What have your experiences been? Anyone recommend or war off on a product?
Thanks very much

Explorer


"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

 

[cookie]

if the oil has been changed regularly, it will be clean inside & won't need flushing.

if it hasn't and it's caked in shit inside, flushing may loosen some of it. not really a good thing unless you get it all out again.

oil, flushing or otherwise should not get on the valve seat, though i guess in practice some does.

only "memory effect" with regard to valve seats i know of is to do with leaded petrol leaving a protective, cushioning trace of lead on seats while using unleaded petrol.

i might consider using flushing oil in a diesel. i own two & don't though.

i don't use any additives etc. that the manufacturer has not specified.

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

Explorer - i've read all your threads on your bike and i'm a bit concerned.
You seem to be the equivalent of a 'bike hypochondriac'.
I might be wrong - perhaps you've got a real engine problem.
Thing is - i don't think you have - you heard a noise - you worried - then everything else is broken inside, the engines worn out, you're going to swap it for another etc etc.

i notice you're in Frensham - i'm in tongham - about 10 miles away - send me an email and i'll try and help you out.
If not - get the mechanics down at SPC to give it listen.

just cos its got 56k on it and it 'only' cost 3k , doesn't mean you've been tucked up like a kipper. You've paid the going rate for a high miler. No big deal for a BMW. you've done well if you can live with the miles. Try and get a feel for the bike - dont look at it as a cheap nail that needs fixing - its going to go for miles.

Let me know
Phil

 

[Dave Hall]

My brother in law is a bit anal when it comes to the internals of his engine.
He chucks deisel engine oil in for a few hundred miles as the detergent content is higher.

 

[Vern]

Don't bother about it, like motomartin says, it'll go on forever with a few rattles that are nothing to worry about. My 1100 is a high mileage bike, and rattles like a good un, I find ear plugs help a lot, hardly rattles at all now If it goes bang, then you'll know there's definatley something wrong. Works for me.

 

[Spout]

Packing the cylinder heads with butter quietens things down for a while

 

[Vern]

I find lard more economical in the long run

 

[Explorer]

Thanks for the advice as ever guys. Unfortunately a second oil change brought out another metal flake silver one side black the other (ferrous-magnetic) and I showed it to SPC-who said it was not good and shouldn't be happening. I have taken it out for a longer run and after 20 perfect miles it started to go lumpy again-at all speeds. I will check the sparks next. To my fellow GS rider in Tongham I will be in touch-it goes ten miles. I have had about ten bikes over the years-and ride them to enjoy-work on them if they need it. None of them have ever had a problem like this with their engines-and none ever had metal coming out. I know it could be something small caused by a temporary oil starvation-and I'm not going to split the engine until I have exhausted all else. As for the price-I agree I paid the right price for a high miler-and a bike I usually love, Now I am over the shock I will not be binning it-but keeping on riding it until a) I fix it or b) it blows up,
Relaxed and Accepting Explorer

 

[The Mechanic]

Silver and black sliver...

What you describe could be the edge of a big-end bearing shell wearing away, that is to say as the shell bearing begins to wear badly the load on the shell upper (carrying the load on the power stroke) is greatest and is being squeezed outwards. This creates a sliver like you describe and as it is unsurpported centrifugal force does the rest and the sliver flies off and arrives in the sump .....eventually. If you are finding more tiny fleks of shiney metal particles then it looks as though further investigation is needed before you go much further.

Having now put the fear of the 'Gods of hot metal' into you some one else will come up with another possibilty that is also plausible, however its dammed difficult to diagnose at a distance.

Remove the oil pressure switch and see if there's any metal particles inside the switch oil way. While you are there you could do an oil pressure check, which could reveal all, or if you feel adventureous you might consider removing one or both cylinder barrels and from there you could see if all was well or not. Thats cheaper than an engine out and strip job but you may end up needing that anyway.

You've got to take on board all the good advice given by other GSer's and make a conscious decision, ride on in ignorant bliss or get stuck in. I wish you luck!

 

[Kenny Rodkiss]

I take it you mean the big end shells and or main bearing shells.
I though that they were made from 'white metal' ie non ferrous and not magnetic.
Hard to say without seeing the bit.
?broken piston ring.
?bits of cam chain tensioner system
As you say, an oil pressure test would maybe tell a story.

 

[cookie]

sounds like a bit of case hardening or plating of some sort.

 

[The Mechanic]

Big-ends etc.

I take it you mean the big end shells and or main bearing shells.
I though that they were made from 'white metal' ie non ferrous and not magnetic.
Hard to say without seeing the bit.
?broken piston ring.
?bits of cam chain tensioner system
As you say, an oil pressure test would maybe tell a story.

Yes of course the bearings use white metal and other softer materials but these are coatings built up in layers. So when excessive wear takes place the white metal gets worn away (thats the non magnetic particles) then the next layer which could be copper.....also non magnetic.... wears and then the clearance between the journal (main or big-end) becomes excessive and the shock loading upon the shell bearing becomes greater and greater with useage. The resultant effect is that the shell actually spreads in the con-rod and literally squashes outwards and then produces what I origainally described.

If it was a 'bit of broken piston ring' explain how it gets out of the 'ring land' without sything through the piston? Much less end up in the sump....that usually only happens when the pistons totally f#*ked. Broken rings usually go upwards as the non-power stokes allow centrifugal force to exert greater force, this errodes the ring groove (all the ring grooves make up the ring land) to such an extent that the ring then shatters into many smaller peices and cuts the cylinder wall and thence the piston. By this time the engine operator would have noticed something unless they are flat out, especially on a two cylinder machine.

And as we are diagnosing at a distance it would really be a good idea to get a professional opinion rather than enticing loads of speculative teeth sucking. Although helpful you will end up going around in circles, us included.

 

[toucan]

Sump removal

I am not fimiliar with the oilheads, but how about removing the sump, its not difficult and you might see more bits that will give a better indication.
cheers

 

[Explorer]

Black and Silver flakes a reply

Thanks for all the info guys. I am slowly working through all the possibilities-including the ones mentioned here. Please God not the engine out-but anything short of that I will try. Father Christmas brought me a hydraulic lifting ramp for the GS-which I think is going to get a lot of use in '04. (By the way-haven't put the bike on the ramp yet-but it looks like a top bit of kit for good money-and the vendors give discount for multiple purchases through a Club. It comes from a company called Viking GB-uses a car jack for the hydraulics and costs £269-which is the cheapest I've ever seen for something which is an actual complete lifting table-rather than something which just goes under the sump. I will post seperately on this when I have used it properly
Cheers to all
Explorer