French town flattened by Nazis

[Blackal]

• Steps missing?
• Arch rebuilt?
• Chimney rebuilt?

Greg

Have another look - they aren't taken from exactly the same point, so the buildings are offset by a couple of facades.

Al

 

[Greg Masters]

Have another look - they aren't taken from exactly the same point, so the buildings are offset by a couple of facades.

Al

You're right!

I knew that the pictures were from slightly different places, but I was using the uprights for the tram power cables as reference points - but in the black/white picture there is one upright obscured by the upright in the foreground! I missed that when I first looked.



Greg

 

[Voyager61]

The saddest place I have ever visited ....

I went last summer ... here's my ride report:

http://www.maximumbikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18176

I have a very similar picture

and for those of you with an interest in the WWII stuff, here's my ride report for last April, which includes a trip to Bruneval, encounters with Tigers and a blast along the Normandy beaches ...

http://www.maximumbikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22477

I hope this is of interest.

Cheers

Paul

 

[Taff]

There are a few of these scattered around the site to mark places where they found mass execution sites.

What exactly does the memorial say? Using my very basic O-Level French (which I failed miserably) my best guess is

Here
?????????
A group of men ??
massacred ??? ??? by the Nazis
You remember.​

We didn't have much time to spend in the visitors centre, and I don't want to create any animosity, but why do they insist on calling the people killed including small kids as "martyrs"? Surely a martyr is someone willing to suffer or die for their beliefs, which I'm pretty sure isn't the case here. Unfortunate "Victims" yes, but "martyrs"?

 

[sycomoto]

I think what you'll find is

You're right!

I knew that the pictures were from slightly different places, but I was using the uprights for the tram power cables as reference points - but in the black/white picture there is one upright obscured by the upright in the foreground! I missed that when I first looked.



Greg

the black and white photo is the more recent. Yes there have been some mods done but i think you'll find its for the public safety IE. the bit over the open shop window and the chimney have been removed as you wouldn't want anyone killed by a falling chunk of stone would you. I've photo's from the book from just after the event and they've done a fair bit to make the site safe as a memorial. It doesn't detract from what happened there and it still brings home what we as humans can do to each other. I've been twice now, the first time was before the visitor centre and it was even more moving due to the fact you just walked straight in and the shock hits you. The new visitor centre is very well done but when we were there it seemed to be focused on the Anti Jew element of the NAZI campaign and i think the whole thing was missing something. Idunno maybe i was missing the point

 

[Voyager61]

Here
?????????
A group of men ??
massacred ??? ??? by the Nazis
You remember.​

Here is a place of suffering
A group of men was massacred and burned by the Nazis

Finally I think the plaque is asking the viewer to reflect on this ...

 

[Greg Masters]

Receuillez-vous doesn't directly translate into English but is close to:

You [must] recollect [remember]

Greg

 

[Wapping]

but why do they insist on calling the people killed including small kids as "martyrs"? Surely a martyr is someone willing to suffer or die for their beliefs, which I'm pretty sure isn't the case here. Unfortunate "Victims" yes, but "martyrs"?

Multiple meanings, though basically similar, the 'willingness' (or otherwise) is not necessarily a key component:

Martyr

Noun

1. a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion. (CLOSEST TO YOUR VERSION)

2. a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause: a martyr to the cause of social justice. (CLOSEST TO THE VERSION IN QUESTION)

3. a person who undergoes severe or constant suffering: a martyr to severe headaches.

4. a person who seeks sympathy or attention by feigning or exaggerating pain, deprivation, etc.

Verb (used with object)

5. to make a martyr of, esp. by putting to death.

6. to torment or torture.

The verb, in both its usages would embrace martyrdom in the sense of French nationals murdered or tortured by Nazi occupation forces

 

[Taff]

Multiple meanings, though basically similar, the 'willingness' (or otherwise) is not necessarily a key component:
.... The verb, in both its usages would embrace martyrdom in the sense of French nationals murdered or tortured by Nazi occupation forces

Mmmmm. See your point Wapping, but I still think it would be better to call them "victims" not "martyrs, and they were "massacred" not "martyred".