From an 1150 to 1200GS. Back issues

[carrera2]

Hi, been a while since I've been here as I've been riding a K1200S for the last 3 years. Really fancy a change now and am thinking of GSs again!

My 1150GS used to give me a bit of backache - I think the upright riding position didn't help. Before I test ride a 1200, has anyone had both and noticed any significant difference in riding position,.

I suspect I know the answer but I really want to hear something positive as I'd love to get back on a GS.

 

[birdseye]

The question is, tbh, a bit of a daft one. In the nicest possible way. Back ache depends on the state of your back more than anything else. I've never had back ache on any bike but I get numb hands on almost all bikes - my back is sound, my wrists are not. There will be others that are the reverse. But what any of us says wont help you if you buy a 1200 and get back ache will it?

Find a decent BMW dealer who will allow a half day test ride, and ride for half a day.

I reckon the gs is more likely to cause wallet ache. BMW quality is sub jap levels with lots of corrosion issues not to mention bevel box bearings and abs systems and fuel strips. Its a great bike to ride but then Alfa Romeoe make great cars to drive. Neither they nor BMW make a decent ownership experience. Tried a 1200 RT just a couple of weeks back that after 2500 careful miles in 2 years had a 1cm play on the rear wheel and was dangerous. Hadnt been abused by the look of it either - it was spotless.

I wont buy another. Or at lkeast I dont think I will.

 

[carrera2]

The question is, tbh, a bit of a daft one. In the nicest possible way. Back ache depends on the state of your back more than anything else. I've never had back ache on any bike but I get numb hands on almost all bikes - my back is sound, my wrists are not. There will be others that are the reverse. But what any of us says wont help you if you buy a 1200 and get back ache will it?

In the nicest possible way, that reply is a daft one.

It's a pretty straight forward question really - I know for a fact that the 1150 hurts my back, I do not have a 'problem back'. Is the riding position the same on the 1200 and does anyone have any experiences of it before I get round to booking a test drive?

Seems your pretty anti BMW anyway whereas I've put 60k miles on them in the last 5 years and see them better than Jap quality.

bye!

 

[cookie]

i used to get back ache on my 1150, but don't on either of the 1200s i've owned.

IMO the riding position on the 1150 is all wrong. handlebars too far back, and worse, footrests too far forward. the latter can be improved a bit with fastway pegs, but the 1200 is better for me. not going to be the case for everyone though.

 

[carrera2]

i used to get back ache on my 1150, but don't on either of the 1200s i've owned.

IMO the riding position on the 1150 is all wrong. handlebars too far back, and worse, footrests too far forward. the latter can be improved a bit with fastway pegs, but the 1200 is better for me. not going to be the case for everyone though.

Excellent, thanks cookie. Good to know.

 

[Fanum]

Ergonomics

As Birdseye says, {edit.....and Cookie} you won't get any genuinely useful info here on your unique situation.....all you'll get is a bunch of people saying "Oh, I did this and was fine"...."I did that and it got worse" etc etc etc....there have been guys who ask for advice on a better seat FFS, then waste a couple of grand trying Sargents, Touratechs, Customised Tony Archers etc etc then discover by chance when they sat on a mate's almost identical bike that the simple raising and forwarding (Made up word) of the bars makes the original seat 100% comfortable

The ergonomics of a bike like a GS are almost infinitely adjustable......Bar risers that go upwards AND backwards or upward AND forwards or just upwards......
Pegs that do the same
Seats that allow movement, spread or focus the weight, tilt the angle of your spine , pelvis and coccyx, or any combination of the above.

What works for one will definitely not automatically work for another....all you can do is start from a ground zero mark and try things an increment at a time until it suits YOU.

The one huge thing going for the bike though is that the position, angles and sheer variety of things you can try pretty much guarantee that there WILL be a way of making the bike suit YOU.

 

[carrera2]

The one huge thing going for the bike though is that the position, angles and sheer variety of things you can try pretty much guarantee that there WILL be a way of making the bike suit YOU.

Many thanks.
I'd not thought of it like that and I must admit I hadn't really tried anything on the 1150 to mitigate the pain...I just got a different bike.

I'm testing an RT this weekend but am now thinking I should probably change this for a GS.

 

[Fanum]

Many thanks.
I'd not thought of it like that and I must admit I hadn't really tried anything on the 1150 to mitigate the pain...I just got a different bike.

I'm testing an RT this weekend but am now thinking I should probably change this for a GS.

Either model will have the same (or very similar) "tweakability" for ergonomic position.......the RT will obviously be initially designed for the 'average' RT rider's position and comfort on a longer tour, but I suspect that the position envelope for both bikes overlaps by a good 90% or more.


When the first 1150GSAs came out, a lot of people really hated the seat, saying it was uncomfortable etc, and they changed it (at great cost in many cases)
I, on the other hand, find my standard GSA seat extremely comfortable and when I tried a 'comfort' Sargeant seat, I hated it 'cos I couldn't shift around backwards and forwards.

In other words, If I were you, I'd buy the bike that YOU wanted, the one that stirs your heart most, then change the position to suit YOU, rather than buying the bike that you think MAY suit you better initially

 

[carrera2]

I'm really glad I asked now Fanum, I feel certain I can buy a GS and tweak it to suit.

Cheers.

 

[Fanum]

I'm really glad I asked now Fanum, I feel certain I can buy a GS and tweak it to suit.

Cheers.

Last tip......don't go spending large sums of dosh on posh seats etc without trying the basics out first......in particular, bar risers and ones which take your hands/shoulders up, forwards or back an inch make a huge difference.....they alter the angle of the whole spine and coccyx to the seat and where your weight presses.....the same with footpegs.

Bar risers are the sort of thing that can be borrowed for a day from a fellow tosser...easily swapped in and out in 5 minutes and they are cheap to buy (sub 40 quid mostly)

There was a guy called Ricardo Khun here.......he's still over on Advrider, but he was and still is an ergonomics guru.....he makes Riccy Bars (SP?) and he used to have a form that people filled in to get a set of handlebars and risers matched up to their measurements- it had a whole load of measurements involved in order to try and get the right setup for reach, height, angle etc.....If you do a good delve here, you'll probably find many of his old posts around (8 or more years back now) and they're worth reading up on.

Even something as apparently tangential to the riding position as the choice of helmet can make a big difference.......some are deep cut at the back and allow the head to sit further back on the shoulders, others limit sideways movement and the subconscious 'lifesaver' glance action adds up to a twist on the whole body.....then we get in to mirrors and their useability, and so on and so on.

When you start looking at every aspect of the ergonomics of riding a bike daily and for long distances, there is so much going on that it's impossible to say "XYZ solution is right for you" .


Try it.....don't get sucked in to buying 'the best seat*' or 'the best solution*' without trying the basics first, asking around and trying (if possible) as many options out as possible



* usually the most expensive that the buyer has to 'big up' out of some sort of self-justification

 

[rodsharp]

Just to add my own comments. I have a long history of lower back problems but have done 70-80000 miles on both 1150 and 1200 models and not had any particular problem . The only problem I had was a sore bum on the 1150 till I changed the seat (got it from some guy in Coventry ,details on here somewhere) but never had any undue problem with the 1200 despite many long days in the saddle. You wont know until you have done a few long journeys but doubt you will have a problem.

 

[birdseye]

Seems your pretty anti BMW anyway whereas I've put 60k miles on them in the last 5 years and see them better than Jap quality.

bye!

Are you serious? Do you really think BMW is better build quality than Honda for example?

For that matter do you think that everyone with an 1150GS has back problems?

Use your brain for a change and do what I suggested. Get a half day trial on a 1200GS, ride it for half a day and you will then have a sensible personal answer to your question.

 

[Bendy toy]

I fitted some Rox handlebar risers that I already had in the shed but am now back to the standard bar clamps. I dont get back ache but did find the standard GSA seat a touch too high and the standard GS seat has a lump at the back where your coccyx finds it after about 2 hours. I ended up with a standard height Kahedo seat. It took a while to settle into but now I'm happy for at least 3 hours in the saddle. Ive not tried any longer TBH. If the standard GS seat had no lump at the back (or if the Kahedo had not turned up), I would have stuck with it.

I suspect the Sargent seats and similar are bought by folks who like a low seat so they can paddle the tall bike backwards and then need to deal with the lack of pelvic support caused by the riding position they impose. (stands back while sparks fly )

The seats I tried were all second-hand used and sold on for what I paid so a great way to get a long term test without breaking the bank. I tried a Sargent BTW but being pan shaped the edges dug into my thighs - hence my opinion above.

The handlebars however still make my thumbs ache. I believe its because they angle back too much (for me anyway). As for height I have them rolled a long way forwards. The brace tube is about 1" behind vertical. This has involved drilling another mounting screw hole in the LHS grip and turning the RHS to about the same position. Without this the clutch and brake levers would be too low to be safe.

In the long run I may get some different handlebars, but I doubt they will be much higher than standard.

My neck problems have however improved considerably. I have thoracic outlet syndrome where deep neck muscles and/or 1st rib catch on the arm nerves. Since getting the GSA this has gradually improved and even further helped by the Givi AF 330 screen. I believe the riding position is about as good as it gets regarding ergonomics and a decent screen removed the turbulence issues. My previous bike had a poor screen so my neck muscles had expanded to cope with the wind pressure.

 

[cookie]

I

I suspect the Sargent seats and similar are bought by folks who like a low seat so they can paddle the tall bike backwards and then need to deal with the lack of pelvic support caused by the riding position they impose. (stands back while sparks fly )

My (standard height) Sargent seat was bought because I am averse to most of my body weight resting on my "barse" as it does on the standard seat, which is a barely more comfortable version of the Judas Chair.

 

[(RIP) Edvard Munch]

I've gone from touring on 'standards' that hurt my arse to touring on 'sports' and' supersports' bikes, that didn't hurt my arse but hurt other parts, to touring on a 1200 GS that, surprise surprise, hurts my arse again, at least until I have a shuffle.

So have a shuffle and/or adjust the bars/screen/seat then still have a shuffle in the end it's a motorcycle not a 2 ton limo

 

[Wapping]

OP, just try the 1200 GS (and for that matter the RT, too) for a test ride. Then buy the bike that suits you best, or buy something else.

Have a couple of things in mind:

1. Half a day's riding will give you what? About 125 to 150 miles, I guess. If you think that is enough to usually give you back ache, or expose any other problems, you'll know. If however your back only starts aching after two days of three hundred miles each, you'll not be much further forward. In short, replicate the conditions that trigger your aches and pains.

2. You are riding a new (to you) motorcycle for maybe just a limited period. It's easy to be carried away, wowed by the awesomeness of the experience. See how many posts there are from bods singing bikes' praises; then just see how many there are moaning about seats, bar angles, footrest positions, buffeting and screens, as soon they actually start to ride the thing to Tesco or the Gobi.

Not least, nobody else is you. You gave formed an opinion over earlier generation of the GS range; opinions that may or may not be matched by other owners or riders. You'll need to repeat the opinion forming process with the 1200 GS, as it's your back, legs, neck, helmet and will be your bike. Not ours.

 

[david a hall]

One of the probs I find with my 1150 is getting it off the side stand while sitting on it. It is a quick way of hurting your back where it is so heavy and the sideways lunge it can require, followed by sitting on it imobile for an hour or more, possibly cold and the muscle can spasm. Care in that process can also help your back.

 

[Pukmeister]

I tried all sorts to relieve lower back ache and coccyx pressure including a reworked GSA seat and bar risers. I bought a Sargent seat two weeks ago and it has finally solved the problem for me through its different profile, so it can be done, although I now need to lower my foot pegs due to Achilles' tendon problems being aggravated with the new riding position.

Correct posture is the key as Fanum stated.

 

[carrera2]

Are you serious? Do you really think BMW is better build quality than Honda for example?

For that matter do you think that everyone with an 1150GS has back problems?

Use your brain for a change and do what I suggested. Get a half day trial on a 1200GS, ride it for half a day and you will then have a sensible personal answer to your question.

Excuse me? Use my brain for a change? Have a read through this thread - notice the helpful comments and then the patronising, rude ones from you. I very much doubt you'd speak to someone face to face like that - what the hell makes you think it's acceptable on here?

You don't like BMW build quality and you think I should test ride a GS (which I said I was going to do in the OP) - and somehow you think that gives you the right to talk like that.

I'm not even going to bother responding to your questions as I see no point in you at all.

 

[carrera2]

OP, just try the 1200 GS (and for that matter the RT, too) for a test ride. Then buy the bike that suits you best, or buy something else.

Have a couple of things in mind:

1. Half a day's riding will give you what? About 125 to 150 miles, I guess. If you think that is enough to usually give you back ache, or expose any other problems, you'll know. If however your back only starts aching after two days of three hundred miles each, you'll not be much further forward. In short, replicate the conditions that trigger your aches and pains.

2. You are riding a new (to you) motorcycle for maybe just a limited period. It's easy to be carried away, wowed by the awesomeness of the experience. See how many posts there are from bods singing bikes' praises; then just see how many there are moaning about seats, bar angles, footrest positions, buffeting and screens, as soon they actually start to ride the thing to Tesco or the Gobi.

Not least, nobody else is you. You gave formed an opinion over earlier generation of the GS range; opinions that may or may not be matched by other owners or riders. You'll need to repeat the opinion forming process with the 1200 GS, as it's your back, legs, neck, helmet and will be your bike. Not ours.

1 - yes, that's what I plan - I have one booked for a full day this weekend.

2 - agreed.

Look, I do realise I need to test ride one and am already sorting that out. I was merely asking to see if anyone else had noticed a big difference as
a) I really want a 1200 and am looking for positives
b) I love changing bikes and get quite excited/chatty on the build up.
c) I thought this was a place to talk about our experiences.

Funny old forum this.