full lock slow speed turns

[widget]

just come back from a bike rally, on one of the rideouts, we stopped to regroup (70 bikes tend to get strung out). out of those bikes, probably a third did a nice U turn...the others paddled, even though it was quite a wide area to turn around in.

 

[bowser]

In Ireland the U Turn is onroad.
Agree that U Turns are rare in Real World riding, but my point remains - it is a good measure of competency.
~~
Og
I'm not replying to this thread any more - it's just getting ridiculous.

Oh I dont know, every time I go out with mate we seem to end up doing at least one U turn ;-)

 

[Myke Rocks]

Which brings us back to the Hoary old joke:

Oh I dont know, every time I go out with mate we seem to end up doing at least one U turn ;-)

Works best if spoken:
Can you make a Ewe Turn?


No, but I can make her eyes water!

Myke

 

[casperfelix]

Far better than a slow U turn is a quick one:

1. Switch off traction control (if you've got it)
2. Turn bars in the direction you want to go
3. Max revs
4. Drop the clutch- while keeping revs high
5. Straighten bars when bike is aiming where you want to go
6. Reduce revs slowly - or change gear
7. Buy new rear tyre

 

[casperfelix]

The point about CBT is getting someone trained to a safe basic level, to get them started, and the U turn has no place in the syllabus. It is something that should come along after CBT when a rider has gained a bit more confidence.

And I thought CBT was all about helping people manage their mental health. DOH.

 

[Timolgra]

And I thought CBT was all about helping people manage their mental health. DOH.

It often is

 

[Buz]

I'd rather be a paddler than to have to pick the bike up after dropping it

 

[widget]

I'd rather be a paddler than to have to pick the bike up after dropping it

Just don't drop it then...simples

 

[Smug]

I'd rather be a paddler than to have to pick the bike up after dropping it

If you can't do a full lock turn then I appreciate that

 

[Pablo1]

Have to disagree with you there. When I see riders paddling instead of doing a feet up U turn, I can't help thinking that they are not capable riders. Normally all the gear and no idea.

I think that it is time well spent making sure that new riders are able to do full lock U turns in both directions and learning the consequences of what will happen if they get it wrong.

Not all youngsters ride cycles nowadays which is a shame because some of the skills of riding a cycle must transfer to riding a motorcycle.

+1 I agree

 

[Timolgra]

Not all youngsters ride cycles nowadays which is a shame because some of the skills of riding a cycle must transfer to riding a motorcycle.

I used to assume that, but it's suprising how some skills such as coordination and balance are not always transferable

 

[Giles]

This is true. I've seen hobo Tim trying to coordinate mouth to can of white lightening first thing in the morning ...

 

[Timolgra]

This is true. I've seen hobo Tim trying to coordinate mouth to can of white lightening first thing in the morning ...

Maybe, but by 11am I can always make a ewe turn

 

[BBB61]

So that 16/17 year old understands the importance of coming to a stop in a safe, convenient place before taking appropriate observations and not just whizzing his scoot around in the road because he's just past his mates.
Just like I'd insist on my own son doing and because at the same time making the student aware that a car may make an unexpected U turn in front if him.

Yes some struggle with control to confidently make a safe U turn and can consider other options but the same/similar observations still apply.

The fact remains the U turn is not a basic riding manoeuvre and is something that should be taught further down the line, not on CBT. A 16/17 old can be taught to come to a safe stop without going through the U turn process on CBT. You are being naïve if you think teaching the U turn on CBT will stop a 16/17 year old from doing unsafe turns.

I feel you're focusing your argument on the length if time it takes a weak student to master the turn, but you'll know that once the penny drops they can do it time after time almost wondering why they struggled earlier and at the same time have reinforced their observations etc.

I haven't even mentioned the time taken for a weak student to complete the CBT, just on how inappropriate it is to be teaching it on a course designed to bring students up to a safe basic level. They have enough to contend with when they go out on the road and with a 16/17 year old I would rather be spending more time with them on basic roadcraft than messing about with U turns.

So you may want to lobby the DSA on dropping U turns (pun) if you believe a rider has acceptable slow speed control even though they can't complete a couple of successful turns, but I won't

So you have swallowed the DSA kool aid then You know as well as I do that slow speed control on CBT can be worked on properly without the need for a U turn, a manoeuvre that the vast majority will rarely do once they have passed their test.

 

[BBB61]

I was being more general, although I think it's a good idea as it's not a bad way to spot those that might be at risk when on the road. If you can't do a U Turn on a 125 you've got to ask why.

Indeed, but the U turn should come after the CBT. A 16/17 year old has enough to think about when they go on the road for the first time without having to worry about a U turn. It is not a basic manoeuvre and has no place in CBT, it is something that should be taught after CBT when they have a bit more confidence.

I'm not saying they should stay off the road, Im saying that I would suggest they stay off the road. If I had a friend or a loved one who could not get their head around doing a U Turn Id not want them on the road, there's not many second chances on bikes!

If they can't get their heads around a U turn then it is most likely they won't do one. But just because they are not confident about U turns is not a reason to suggest they stay off the road.

Yes it is... People run ride because they've not got the confidence in themselves or the bike and allow fear to dictate what they do. Screwing up a U Turn is the same

Screwing up a U turn is not the same as having a fear of cornering. Using your logic if they have a fear of U turns then it follows they will have a fear of all aspects of riding.

Did I say that?...all of the above should be done but I think, especially as you're talking CBT and therefore new riders, that U Turns are a great way to identify riders that may be at risk and they should work on that before moving onto the above.

You can identify who may be at risk on CBT very easily without a U turn. I've had riders who have managed the U turn ok but have still been a risk on the road. Being able to complete a U turn does not guarantee they will do ok on other aspects of riding.

 

[BBB61]

Have to disagree with you there. When I see riders paddling instead of doing a feet up U turn, I can't help thinking that they are not capable riders. Normally all the gear and no idea.

If you think that a rider is not capable because they don't want to do a U turn then that is an incredibly arrogant assumption to make.

I think that it is time well spent making sure that new riders are able to do full lock U turns in both directions and learning the consequences of what will happen if they get it wrong.

What would be the benefit of doing U turns in both directions?

Not all youngsters ride cycles nowadays which is a shame because some of the skills of riding a cycle must transfer to riding a motorcycle.

Some skills do transfer across. The big concern for motorcycling is how many 16/17 year olds will take it up now that the EU Third Licence Directive is with us and what it has done to the test regime.

 

[earwig]

To me .... U turns and figures of 8 may not be used on the day to day riding of most of us.... but ......they teach you basic bike control (throttle, brakes, clutch, balance) and give a method of practicing to improve your over all standards ..... any one can twist a throttle hard in a straight line .... how many can do a feet up full lock turn?

Just my view you may not agree so that's your view

Did these turns for ... CBT .... Direct access ..... and now IAM (all passed ) ... and I still try to do a figure of 8 in the car park before I park up at work each morning 2 minutes practice .... for a lot more confidence in the bike and my abilities

what I need now ......

 

[The Prospector]

The problem here is your all giving the wrong advice. If you wish to turn to the right you must turn the handlebars to the left, it's called 'counter steering 'and apparently a motorbike will not turn unless you do this. For a full explanation read the 'balls of the feet' thread.

 

[Buz]

The problem here is your all giving the wrong advice. If you wish to turn to the right you must turn the handlebars to the left, it's called 'counter steering 'and apparently a motorbike will not turn unless you do this. For a full explanation read the 'balls of the feet' thread.

Ive seen Lightening Mcqueen off of 'Cars' do that, it didnt quite work how you describe

 

[Timolgra]

So you have swallowed the DSA kool aid then

How little you know me and continue to spout, so I'm out