Well if anyone is seriously interested, PM me and we'll discuss it further.
Gear Shift Assist notchy?
- Thread starter Warlord
- Start date
Guess so, that would make sense.
Oil pressure and correct oil levels impact the cam chain tension, so that may be related as well
Shaun, how much should we charge for Tool Hire
Where are u based roughly ?
well,imo the gearshift pro just cuts ign and maybe fuel but im sure it dont give a fuck where the camshaft is at the time,its the emperors new clothes syndrome.
yes its called Wartop
Correct.... and a quickshifter gives a command to cut ignition for 150 milliseconds... not 140 milliseconds... not 160 milliseconds.
It has to be timed perfectly for a slick unloaded gear change.
A perfectly timed engine is whats needed... not a nearly timed engine 100 milliseconds off because the cam speed sensor isn't aligned properly..
You go and ask any quickshifter manufacturer how important 'kill timing' is.... it needs to be perfect
I’m away for 3 weeks as of next sat but if your up for hiring the tools I might be interested when I get back.
I asked roughly where u were as I have a friend who has a bike repair shop in Tamworth so if that was close I could have done it there if u wanted to keep eyes on your tools.
I asked roughly where u were as I have a friend who has a bike repair shop in Tamworth so if that was close I could have done it there if u wanted to keep eyes on your tools.
Yeah, that sounds fine, I'm happy to travel to Tamworth. Might be very handy knowing a friendly bike shop in Tamworth as well
Just to follow on from that....
The problem with quickshifters is the time it takes to kill the ignition, unload the gearbox, change gear, restart ignition. That's called the Kill Time.
If the kill time is too short then the gearbox may be damaged (crunching, resistance etc). A kill time too long will cause the motorcycle to "lurch" during shifts.
Each gear change has a different Kill Time, because the 'change gear' part varies from gear to gear. Quite often you could set a kill time of 150 milliseconds and gears 1,2 and 3 with be lurchy.... but 4, 5 & 6 gears will be smooth. Set a kill time of 30 milliseconds and gears 1,2 & 3 will be smooth and 4, 5 & 6 will be lurchy.
As an example, HM Quickshifter sell a product called the 'seamless shift' (which I bought for my 205 BHP ZZR1400 Performance Sport, because the last thing I want is feckin 'Lurchy' !!)..... this seemless shift dynamically adapts 'kill time' using advanced predictive math in the form of non-linear Kalman Algorithms. So in theory, every gear change kill time is perfect as it dynamically adjusts and learns. Well in practice I used to occasionally get a missed gear at 9000 rpm and shit myself
... 200 BHP at wide open throttle, so fuck Kalman Algorithms.If timing wasn't a problem, why go to all this feckin trouble to manage 30 to 150 milliseconds between gear changes.
Timing is EVERYTHING.
good job you know everything and love to tell us eh,as you have just copy and pasted the kill time has nothing to do with engine timing
Well mate, you haven't told us anything so far, so why don't you press some keyboard buttons and provide an explanation to your point of view? Hey?
Waiting.....
Ok, lots of milliseconds thrown around here.
Lets play with numbers.
Say the engine is shifted at 6k.
That will give us 100 revs. pr second, i.e 10 ms pr revolution, at the same time the camshaft, doing half speed, does 180 degrees in 10ms, meaning camshaft does 18 degrees/ms.
Let's say the distance between the two camshafts is 8 cm.
If the alignment tool shows 4 mm off, which will be quite a bit, 4mm at distance 8cm ~ 3degrees --> 18degrees/s --> ~ 17uS.
I.e
An out of phase between camshaft of 3 degrees (4 mm on the alignment tool represent 17 micro seconds discrepancy of timing, and as the sparks are triggered on every revolution of camshaft, this is 2 x 10ms = 20ms between each spark, which means 17uS represent less than 1% discrepancy.
Lets play with numbers.
Say the engine is shifted at 6k.
That will give us 100 revs. pr second, i.e 10 ms pr revolution, at the same time the camshaft, doing half speed, does 180 degrees in 10ms, meaning camshaft does 18 degrees/ms.
Let's say the distance between the two camshafts is 8 cm.
If the alignment tool shows 4 mm off, which will be quite a bit, 4mm at distance 8cm ~ 3degrees --> 18degrees/s --> ~ 17uS.
I.e
An out of phase between camshaft of 3 degrees (4 mm on the alignment tool represent 17 micro seconds discrepancy of timing, and as the sparks are triggered on every revolution of camshaft, this is 2 x 10ms = 20ms between each spark, which means 17uS represent less than 1% discrepancy.
Yes but the fundamental question that separates AutoGS opinions and My experience is.....
** Does cam sensor position affect Ignition Timing, if so, does Ignition Timing affect a Quickshifters performance.
Yes or No
I vote : YES - good ignition timing helps quickshifter performance
AutoGS vote : NO - cam timing is irrelevant and has no connection to quickshifter performance
That's what it boils down to...
** Does cam sensor position affect Ignition Timing, if so, does Ignition Timing affect a Quickshifters performance.
Yes or No
I vote : YES - good ignition timing helps quickshifter performance
AutoGS vote : NO - cam timing is irrelevant and has no connection to quickshifter performance
That's what it boils down to...
How does the auto blipper really work, the engine must be disconnected from gear box in order for the revs to be instantly raised - I assume that the slipper clutch is just forced to slip.??? It just doesn’t feel right on my bike other than occasionally when slowing rapidly under brakes and down changing, but it all seems a bit crude so I don’t bother using it and continue to manually blip using the clutch.
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