Germany/Alps in July.....

[(RIP) trickytree]

.....will we need to pre book accommodation? Would like to keep options flexible as Mrs.tree is coming along and other than a few bike nights she hasn't done any great distance on pillion before.
Original plan was to do the Alps on my own but was suprised when I asked if she wanted to come she said yes straight away. We've only got 9 days and I would prefer to have a couple of none biking days for some R&R.

So. Option one, take 2 or 3 days to get to Switzerland, stay awhile and 2 or 3 days back.

Option Two, do whatever miles we feel like and look for somewhere to stay when we get there.

I've always gone for option 2 in the past but have always been camping.....Wife draws the line at life under canvas.

A few opinions would be appreciated before we decide what to do. Ta.

 

[Simon W]

Your options are almost limitless but I'd suggest some version based around Option One would be by far and away the best thing to do for your first big trip with your wife. Remember to dial the mileage down from what you'd do on your own - by at least 25%, probably more like 30-40% less per day to allow time for more - and longer - stops, plus the fact that you'll be going slower than you would on your own: even steady riders go more steadily with a passenger. You probably want to plan a bit more tactically: use a bit more motorway to ruthlessly bypass "nice" roads quickly (you can still cover the ground at your normal rate on a motorway) so you're able to spend more time on the best roads.

As for destinations, Germany's a lot closer than Switzerland - if you take the Hull/Rotterdam ferry you can be there by lunchtime. Albeit in the Eifel mountains not the Alps. From there you can get down to the Deutsche Alpenstrasse in another day if you use a bit of motorway (maybe another two days if you go via the Black Forest).

If you're going Dover/Calais, two days (or, better, two days plus a morning) is plenty to get to Switzerland, even on a pillion-friendly schedule. Personally, I'd probably carry on south in short hops, through the French Alps - mostly because Switzerland is more expensive than France (just) and there's the rip-off motorway vignette in Switzerland.

And while everyone will quite rightly point out that you don't need to pre-book accommodation, I'd suggest that if it's your wife's first big trip, there's a lot to be said for giving her the reassurance of knowing there's bed in a nice hotel booked for the end of the day. You'll know whether she'd be happy with the freewheeling uncertainty/adventure of going without booking - but for a first trip, would it really hurt to play it safe and book ahead? Especially if you want to find somewhere to stop for a couple of days and use as a base, it might be a good idea to spend a bit of time finding somewhere decent. Plus you'll normally get a better price if you book ahead, rather than turning up looking desperate at 8pm...

 

[Deleted account Cooperman]

I agree taking a few days off to have time to enjoy the locations is a good idea. Why not agree with Mrs Tree a destination you both want to visit. Examples could be an Italian Lake, Grindelwald (Eiger), Dolomites (say Cortina). Having agreed a common goal the work out a circular route looking for good roads and interesting locations. You could tick the Ardennes, Black Forest, Vosges and bag a few alpine passes.

Have a read through a few ride reports on here.

 

[leedude03]

As above try to be considerate to your wifes ability to cope with the distances involved and all that goes along with it, and with it being her first long tour try and make it enjoyable and not a chore for her, as if its something you would like to do again in the future it will pay dividends, i speak from experience. If going via the tunnel and depending on your start time i would make your first stop just south of calais somewhere or a little further depending on how the wife has coped with the journey down to the tunnel, or if she has had enough before you get to france (this will give you an idea of her limits for the tour) stop off at folkestone or sooner at a b&b or the like and get an early train.
Not sure where in lincolnshire you are so took a guess, if you were traveling from lincoln to folkestone you will have roughly a 4 to 4.5 hour journey at a steady pace, and that should give your wife a reasonable idea of the traveling will be like, you will then have a better idea of how its going to play out.

 

[Jockser]

If you don't want her to come with you next time blast down to the Alps as quickly as possible

If however you'd like to do it again some time in the future then pace yourselves, i.e. Option 2
There's plenty of great riding between the ferry port & the Alps
Personally I only book less than an hour before I stop. Booking.com has only let me down once, Lake Como in July
There's nothing stopping you picking a destination in the morning & booking a hotel based on that

Whatever you decide enjoy it & Mrs T will too

 

[Redboots]

Option 2 every time.

 

[(RIP) trickytree]

We will be sailing from Hull on the overnight so as we have a full day at our disposal. If on my own I would be more than happy to ride right down into the Black Forest in one hit....probably Frieburg area.....but even I realise thats a tad optomistic for a first big trip! If she's struggling and we don't make the Alps then that's no big deal. Not pre booking and taking things one day at a time seems the best plan.

Jockser, that's a good idea about booking.com.....never thought of it....mobile, never mind smart phones were around last time I went to the Black Forest

 

[gren_t]

If your blowing through germany why not do the romantic road & overnight in one of the historic towns I can recomend rothenburg ob du torbor -spelling?.
lake titatsee and burchesgarden are well worth the trip all very wife friendly also.
have fun

Gren

 

[Pablo1]

GERMANY 2016

Given the time you have I reckon Germany would be far enough.
How about
Day 1 Home to Ferry
Day 2 Cochem
Day 3 Freudenstadt
Day 4 Friedrickshafen (B500)
Day 5 Berchtesgaden (german alpinestrasse)
Day 6 Nordlingen (romantic road)
Day 7 Aschafenberg
Day 8 Boppard
Day 9 Ferry

All around 200 miles per day apart from Nordlingen but that could be altered, if you have a garmin and mapsource I can send you the routes as Ive done all of these at some point.

 

[Jockser]

Jockser, that's a good idea about booking.com.....never thought of it....mobile, never mind smart phones were around last time I went to the Black Forest

Them new fangled yokes do have their uses, even for us oul fellas


Pablo1, I do like Berchtesgaden - Eagles Nest, Rossfeldstrasse, Dokumentation Obersalzburg, Konigssee and about the only place in Bavaria you'll get a decent curry

 

[Wapping]

Simon W has it about right in post #2 and option 1, backed up by Cooperman's comment in post #3.

In fact option 1 is pretty close to option 2, in as much it's a pretty vague 'Take 2 or 3 days' to get from the ferry's landing point to Switzerland. 'Switzerland' itself is suitably vague, too.

It strikes me that you (the OP) don't really know what YOU want to do for the holiday, let alone your wife on her first trip abroad as a pillion. It's not even clear why you've planned on Switzerland, other than it's in the Alps.

Only YOU know you and above all, only YOU know your wife. Plan YOUR trip around that. Here's something to possibly help you:

1. I pumped Rotterdam to Zurich into Google maps and asked it for a route. I chose Zurich as it's definitely in Switzerland and everyone (near enough) has at least heard of it.

2. Google maps generated two direct (basically motorway) routes:

(i) Rotterdam > Eindhoven > Koblenz > Heidelberg > Stuttgart > Zurich at 800 kms or 500 miles

(ii) Rotterdam > Antwerp > Brussels > Luxembourg > Metz > Strasbourg > Basle > Zurich, again at about 800 km or 500 miles

So, either way the direct distance is 500 miles, the only variation is the route south, either to the right or the left of the Rhine river all the way down. On paper at least, the second route might be the more interesting as it will bring you through the Belgian Ardennes and then through the Vosges. The first brings you through Koblenz and Heidelberg, both popular enough destinations in their own right. Now the only question is: Do you / your wife want to do 500 miles in two days (250 miles a day) or three, which is (obviously) less?

Now you have a pretty good idea of the approximate distance and direction, to Zurich at least.

I then asked Google maps for the same Rotterdam to Zurich route but avoiding motorways and tolls. Not surprisingly perhaps it is near enough route (ii) via the Ardennes / Vosges, with little change in the overall distance of 500 miles. But, and here's the important thing for your pillion, the estimated time to cover the same distance nearly doubles. That alone might be a consideration on whether you take two or three days, time in the saddle being important to a possibly pee'ed off pillion.

Me? Well, I'm not you (nor your wife) - and I'm only guessing at Zurich - but, for the sake of completing my example, I think I'd look at the non-motorway option of route (ii) as it looks 'better' from a scenery / riding viewpoint and it would always be possible to join a motorway if the weather was foul or either of you just wanted to get somewhere quickly. I'd look at three days, probably reserving a hotel in the southern end of the Ardennes and then another in the Vosges, then on to Zurich. This would give you a nicely organised start, if nothing else. You'd both also get a feel for how well (or badly) each was getting on. If it's a disaster, you could dive off at the Vosges and jump across to the Black Forest and not go to 'the Alps' or 'Switzerland' at all. Or if you are cracking along, take your map out and away you go.....

There are a million and one options, as Simon W all but said. There are lots of route options, too. You'll find more than one to suit you AND your wife, I'm sure. Please let us know who you decide on and then let us know how it all goes, please. I'm sure what you find out and experience will be of interest to the next bod that comes along in similar circumstances.

Richard

 

[sven]

I've been down to the Alps from Zeebrugge/Rotterdam two-up several times now and avoid the autobahns as much as possible.

I'd recommend somewhere on the Rhine or Mosel for the first night (Cochem is a favourite of mine), then head south through the Huhnsruck area to the north end of the Black Forest for the second night. Visit Heidelburg on the way if you like old towns or Sinsheim Auto & Technik Musuem if you like cars, planes, bikes and WW2 stuff (best museum I've ever visited).

This sets you up for a very pleasant ride through the Black Forest into Switzerland the next morning I found Baden-Baden a bit "sterile", but would recommend the Hotel Athos as it had lovely rooms, an excellent Greek restaurant, garaging if you wanted it and it was pretty cheap https://www.booking.com/hotel/de/ba...D;sid=2d690aa94b80b69c9d0c78fd6502df3e;dcid=2

We stopped in Brienz last year for three nights which was a good base for the Susten/Furka/Grimsel loop and also a day off the bike on the Jungfraujoch railway. It was cheaper than stopping in Grindelwald or Interlaken but very pretty (much prettier than Andermatt which is a bikers favourite).

 

[Decompressing]

worth bearing i mind that, if you're intending to neatly divide up each day into equal miles ridden, when you're in the Alps, this doesn't generally work! 200 miles in the Alps could take you several days to complete depending how small and winding the roads you use are!!

Sorry if this is stating the obvious but....I just wanted to state the obvious!

 

[Parchman]

Booking.com is your new found friend. Despite the claims, it won't necessarily be any cheaper than booking direct or just turning up, but will give you somewhere to head to, secure that there will be a place to stay.
Accommodation was always the PITA in the "old days", but internet access in every McDoh, most cafes, and hot spots in town centres make that a thing of the past.
The continuing growth of cheap chain hotels mean there is something at least, however basic. This doesn't mean that the older independent or family run places should be ignored, and accessing their location and details has never been easier. Usually much better than an Ibis, let alone an F1.

From a purely personal point of view, I would tend to use the roads through France, at least in one direction, for the usual reasons - food and my partner speaks excellent French, and my German is now very hazy.

Others have given time scales for travel to Switzerland, here's my take, which is often in the car, to collect wine.
South of France to Basle, across country, probably two days. A bit of mild Col driving in the French Alps, then to Pontarlier or similar for the overnight. Lots of nice cafes come boulangeries for a nice breakfast.
Maybe take in a corner of Switzerland, very nice and rural there, or across the Jura in France, whatever, end up just on the right side of Basle/St Louis and the start of the A5 Autobahn. Four hours drone to Frankfurt to drop in on my sister.
Frankfurt to Dunkerque on my normal route through Belgium is 414miles, in 30 years, never done it in less than 6 hours - Basle to Dunkerque, 10 hours in the car, computer running average speed 60mph+, so showing 80ish most of the time. Doable on a bike but hardish work, harder because you need to stop more often to refuel and do any arseasing necessary.

Due to having to travel on the day the Brussels terror kicked off two weeks ago - we were on the ferry when the news broke - and not being able to find out anything other than "Belgian Borders Closed", we did a bit of a detour eliminating our usual two Belgian border crossings.
Now we had a slight time pressure, and had to use motorway far too much. Reims - Verdun - Saarbrucken - Kaiserslautern - Bingen - Frankfurt. Over 8 hours, and about 100 miles longer. With advance warning, we could have done things better.

There are many route you could take. Seeing more, experiencing more is what will win passengers over, hours droning along a motorway will not - that is done better by other means.
Taking an inexperienced passenger and giving them a hard time is not the best way to persuade them to continue to accompany you next time. Lots of stops, scenic routes, nice accommodation and meals is a good way to encourage participation and maybe even more tours than are done now.

 

[Rasher]

I always estimate an average of 30mph when in the mountains (i.e. a day of riding passes and not hitting any autoroutes etc)

The Sat Nav has backed this up over the years with "moving" average figures always at 30 - 39 mph for the day, there are some very nadgery passes where the average could be lower, especially if weather is bad, but most people should average 30mph+ during a days riding fairly easily.

I then allow 15 minutes per hour to stop to admire views / take pictures / grab a drink / have a pee / poke around something interesting, and then add another 45-60 minutes for lunch, this means a 150 mile day = max 5 hours riding and max 2:15 for stops = 7:15.

This makes 150 - 180 miles a good days ride for us and I try and avoid much more than 200 in a day unless we have to cover the ground, or some of the riding is on more major roads where the speeds will pick up considerably.

 

[(RIP) trickytree]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, appreciated. Wife really threw a spanner in the works when she said she wanted to come with me....I never considered for a nano second that she would want to do so and as such has thrown a huge and unknown variable into the trip. She has told me that it's my holiday and to do what I want but knowing her as I do she would suffer in silence....although a uncomfortable pillion is pretty easy to suss out, even for me.

Thing is she hasn't even sat on the bike this year, let alone ridden pillion. I've told her that I want to do some long trips before we set off to see how she copes with a couple of hundred miles in a day but she doesn't want to go when it's wet or cold

Think we're both guilty of varying degrees of naivety with this trip. She's never done anything remotely like it before and I've never done it with a pillion to consider. We will both be wiser after the event at least.

Hull to Rotterdam return ferries are booked as are holidays from work so we're going no matter what. If Mrs. tree's squirming around before we reach the outskirts of Rotterdam then we might only be touring Holland

 

[Rasher]

You will be fine

Worth building up to some bigger runs to get the bodies muscles used to the ways of a motorcycle.

We also find we stopped a lot more before the Mrs got her own bike, not just down to her on the back, but with a pillion you cannot fidget around as much so your ability to munch miles will also be reduced, my guidelines were about right for two-up on the GS, with two bikes we can go further on the long legs, but still find once in the nice areas we want to stop more anyway.

Give the Mrs a decent little camera, gives her something to do and you will get some great shots, also means you do not have to stop every time you round a bend to another "must photograph" Vista before you, and when you do feel the need to stop to make sure you get the pic you can just stop for the few seconds it takes for her to take the picky, no more getting the camera out the tank bag etc.

Also test the bike fully loaded to check handling and ideally do a weekend away - but ask her to pack everything she would want on the big trip, I used to give my Mrs the larger pannier and she could take whatever she could fit in it with a concession to an extra pair of shoes in the top box where the spare gloves / visors hang out. I had the small box, waterproofs in tank bag and job done.

You should have a great time

 

[alan29]

We are properly ancient and travel 2 up. Our rule is to stop every hour for 10 minutes at least to get both sets of knees working again. We aim to arrive by about 4.00 pm. Some days thats 250 miles, other days its under 200. But we both arrive comfortable, and it gives us a couple of hours to explore the town and look for somewhere to eat. I am an obsessive planner, so everything gets booked well in advance. At our age we don't want to be turning up somewhere on spec, and we do want to minimise the chances of marital aggravation.
I would second the camera hint. Some of our best photos have been taken by OH on the move. Crossing the Millau viaduct with her holding the camera out sideways was memorable, as were some photos taken half way round hairpins in the Pyrenees.