Goretex leaks

[pragmatix]

Not sure if this belongs here or in beakchat or in rant, Goretex leaking, why does it suddenly start to leak, did 465 mile today in pouring rain, after about 4.5 hours all the goretex clothing started to leak, not a little but poured in. 4 different manufactures involved gloves, jacket, trousers and boots all goretex lined all started to leak within 15 mins of each other, is it something to do with your body temperature? Mind it wasnt half raining, even the inside of my helmet was wet, most of that bouncing of my chest.

Pete A

 

[Fanum]

Silly question but are you sure it started leaking and the water didn't just find a way in like around your neck and down your whole body???

 

[boundless]

.....For while the tired waves, vainly breaking,
Seem here, no painful inch to gain,
Far back, through creeks and inlets making,
Comes silent, flooding in, the main.

Sudden onset is how it happens.

Stage 1) Dry skin. No leaking. Inner membrane permeable. Outer fabric layer still dry

Stage 2) Dry skin. No leaking. Inner membrane permeable. Outer fabric layer getting soaked.

Stage 3) Dry skin. No leaking. Inner membrane partially coated on outside by layer of water, becoming 'clingy' and losing permeability to sweat vapour. analogous to situation in a tent where the inner sheet is touching the fly sheet. Outer fabric layer completely soaked.

Stage 4) Clammy skin. No leaking but sweat can't leave the building now. Inner membrane completely coated on outside by layer of water, becoming 'clingy' and impermeable to water vapour. Outer fabric layer approaching saturation point.

Stage 5) Wet skin. No leaking but water being drawn from limited number of small ingress points such as sleeves, holes etc by surface tension effects (the capillary action of 'clingy' membrane). Inner membrane now acting effectively as a plastic bag to channel water to the underwear regions. Outer fabric layer now functioning as reservoir for ensuing 'flash flood'.

 

[pragmatix]

Silly question but are you sure it started leaking and the water didn't just find a way in like around your neck and down your whole body???

No, various wet bits no connecting marks, Crotch first (after inspection seem to have got in by the pocket zips), closely followed by arms, feet and finally hands.

Pete A

 

[Fanum]

No, various wet bits no connecting marks, Crotch first (after inspection seem to have got in by the pocket zips), closely followed by arms, feet and finally hands.

Pete A

Sounds rather like ol'bounders has nailed it then

 

[pragmatix]

sounds plausible

boundless, that sounds plausible, a fair assumption. Now the but, if Goretex was meant for heart valves, it would be wet all the time and would pass fluid in both directions, or have I missed something? Or is it a case of blood is thicker than water?

Thanks Pete A

 

[Schtum]

The pores in the Gore-Tex membrane are large enough to allow moisture particles from sweat to pass through but small enough to prevent the ingress of water droplets. Hence it's described as a semi-permeable membrane.

The best course of action for your kit would be to wash it according to the manufacturer's specifications, after removing the armour; proof it with one of the wash-in proofing agents which are available and then tumble dry it to set the water repellant finish. This will reproof the Cordura face fabric and help to prevent it from wetting out, i.e. Boundless' stages 2 & 3 above.

 

[The Mechanic]

Gortex warranty......

Doesn't Gortex offer a five year gaurantee against faults like leaking. My Heenus Gerickus Tour boots have Gortex linings and the guy who sold them said "two years on the boots and five years on the Gortex.

Take your stuff back from whence it came and complain.

 

[boundless]

Not Al....

boundless, that sounds plausible, a fair assumption. Now the but, if Goretex was meant for heart valves, it would be wet all the time and would pass fluid in both directions, or have I missed something?

It doesn't pass fluid in the liquid phase...only vapour. There are indeed very small itsy bit holes (pores) but they are too small to let water through at typical everyday pressures involved. It's an inter-molecular force thang.


Erm..... The eponymous surgeon, of fame and renown, one Mr Robert W. Gore designed this Teflon fabric originally for aortic blood vessel replacements. In 1969, he discovered that rapidly stretching polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) created a very strong, micro porous material – expanded PTFE – which offered a range of new, desirable properties. He was trying to make a version of the previously used Dacron graft material that would be less likely trigger monster blood clots...he was thinking ' if it's good for non-stick frying pans, then what about this?'

It wasn't till he was well under way with the project that he noticed one day steam rising through a piece of the material that he had absentmindedly placed over his hot cup of coffee. On a whim he demonstrated this to his colleague and then turned the cup inverted to show that water in its liquid phase would not pass whilst the vapour did. Shortly thereafter he filled in the patent application form for a range of leisure wear and rolled in it thereafter. 650 patents, several Lear jets now and still counting.

 

[pragmatix]

Schtum,Mechanic.

Thanks both, the problem is not that it need washing (done regularly) or a guarantee issue ( cant see that as it involves 4 different brands), it was an observation that in extreme downpour conditions that Goretex does leak, has happened to me with my walking gear as well. Infact the only waterproofs I have had that have not leaked was the good old silvery plastic coated Rukka suit.

Pete A

 

[Mikey]

I have found over the years that goretex doesn't work as it should when the protective shell is saturated, as stated above it stops it working. I find that washin in TX10 waterproofsthe outer as well and this does help.

The other thing is that it's all very well having a breathable outer layer when the stuff underneath it doesn't breathe the smelly sweaty stuff can't get out then and you will get wet.

 

[Schtum]

The other thing is that it's all very well having a breathable outer layer when the stuff underneath it doesn't breathe the smelly sweaty stuff can't get out then and you will get wet.

Good point. Cotton shouldn't be worn under any breathable shell, let alone Gore-Tex. Silk and wool are ok as far as natural fibres go but I confess to only wearing wicking thermal base layers with fleece on top.

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

gortex leaks

All gortex leaks,
dont matter how much you pay, it will eventually leak. especially when put in the pressures of driving through rain.
The trick is to keep it clean and iron it, ironing helps creating "beads"
but i tell you, Gortex leaks.

I've had gortex in conditions all over the world. not only the issue gortex either. from Iraq to norway, USA to Africa.

Gortex leaks.

On a bike it is better to have 100% waterproof lining. Gortex is for when the human body is working and producing heat and moisture. this moisture has to get out. gortex lets it out (slowly)
but on a bike you are not going to be "working up a sweat"

Gortex leaks.

 

[schnauzer]

I have found that I will eventually get wet when wearing goretex if its p^ssing down. I tend to treat it as showerproof, and if about to be travel in heavy rain will pop the 1 piece rukka plastic suit over the top.

 

[Ben]

Interesting debate as I have had all my Goretex leak at one time or another..even military stuff, but not boots..yet.

They usual explanation is that the seams are the weak point..ie not always 100% properly taped; or the taped area gets worn and damaged.

In hot weather there is no question that goretex gets very wet...try running in a Goretex jacket.

But the favourite is this: namely that you just don't realise how complicated the airflow dynamics are around the rider and consequently water is absolutely bound to find its way into collars and cuffs..zips and pocket stitching...frankly it's hardly suprising.

BMW's new Steetguard jacket has the Goretex bonded to the jacket. They wouldn't have tried this for fun. They certainly realise that the outer layer, once wet, stops all moisture getting out. As for taming the dribbles from complicated airflow...this is why cuffs have those inner sleeves. Its a help, that's all.

My (once) band new Goretex Frank Thomas jacket had me soaked within five minutes in a heavy thunderstorm. 100% down to ingress other than through the fabric! And yet when tested against a hose..remained dry.

Ben

 

[Den]

Pete, Ive checked with the MET office and here is the result.
They said that that particular rainstorm consisted of unusually small raindrops blown across from china.
These drops are small enough to pass through the goretex membrain, thus causing leaks.
If you dry your kit off, then wait for a real Scottish storm, where the raindrops are considerably larger than the Chinese variety, your gortex will perform as intended.
Alternatively, since the goretex produced in the far east is made with smaller holes, you could nip across there and purchase one of their suits.
The problem with this solution is in the reverse function of Goretex. Scottish sweat globules are larger than the oriental secretions, so may not pass out through the inner layers, therefore causing sweaty patches on the inside.

Ye canny win can you !!!

 

[pragmatix]

Den, knew I could trust you for the right answer.

Pete A

 

[Schtum]

I have to say that in a standard Scottish monsoon all the way from Thurso to Bonar Bridge on the Sunday before last, my Hein Gericke Voyager Gore-Tex suit kept me completely dry apart from one small damp spot on my chest. That was caused by water finding its way along the cable for my Sony Phontopia / Cool Carbon in-ear monitors, under the neck flap of my jacket and underneath my Coolmax balaclava before running down my chest.

However because I was wearing a Patagonia thermal base layer and Polartec Powerstretch top under my jacket, it didn't really matter. Modern thermal fabrics feel warm when wet and dry quickly. It's water. It'll find its way inside even the most waterproof kit.

A wee plug for my Belstaff Dr-Sport gloves and obviously for Altbergs, while I'm at it......