Great bike, BUT......discuss

[Timolgra]

Second - expecting a GS to go round the world out of the crate without preperation is as silly as expecting to go racing on a cbr1000 straight from the showroom. Both are a base, 90% there for what you would need. The BMW off road course is a great advertisement for the 1200's off road abilities in the same manner as Rob Haslam's school is for the CBR's on a track, but only an imbicile would disparage the 1200 because the marketing guys play on the adventure thing, while the bike itself would need some preperation to do the trip.

Just my 2p

Jon

Interesting analogy Jon, but what prepartion would you suggest could be needed on a 1200 in terms of reliability.

After all, I hate using LWR as an example, but my own experiences also suggest that newish 1150's don't need any preparation for reliability, whereas you as a 1200 owner are suggesting 1200's do.

 

[givitsum]

'great bike'

Haven't ridden a 1200 in case I'm tempted into sumthin I can't afford---did many, many happy miles on & off-road on the 1100 version without as much as a blown bulb though.

As an old-timer we endured unreliable bikes when there was nuthin else but I must admit since going Jap I've got accustomed to covering the ground without fuss or mechanical breakdown unless self-inflicted.

I bought the 1100 when it first came out with the intention using it for a RtW trip but quickly came to the conclusion that she was too heavy for serious abuse on anything but dry off-road going---can't imagine that the 1200 is any better. I remember a Kiwi in the paddock at the TT suggesting that the drive-shaft was suspect---god knows how he knew that 'cos mine was one of the first 1100s on the road. Did get me hot under the collar though having just spent ten grand on the bike---yup, they were a lot of dosh in 1994---and he left with a flea in his ear. Can be annoying having your pride & joy critisised

Have just sold my XJR 1300SP---she had 38000 miles on the clock---did 4000 miles to Dubrovnik and back in a fortnight in 2004---one blown headlight bulb is the sum total of faults in six years---I will probably have to get used to being a mechanic again as the only bike in my shed is an old airhead that I recently brought in from the States but having retired recently I now have the time and it doesn't really matter if I'm late back from a trip as long as I enjoy it.

Haven't had much to add to the reliability or otherwise of the 1200 but posts both here and on American web-sites would indicate there's usually 'no smoke without fire' and having had the unbreakable 1100GS it's a sad day to see BMW coming out with a newer, supposedly unreliable model.

givit

 

[cookiemonster]

Interesting analogy Jon, but what prepartion would you suggest could be needed on a 1200 in terms of reliability.

After all, I hate using LWR as an example, but my own experiences also suggest that newish 1150's don't need any preparation for reliability, whereas you as a 1200 owner are suggesting 1200's do.

I am? 'friad I dont read anything about preperation for reliability in my post

Does a 12, or any bike ever made, need some preperation before taking it round the world? Of course it does.

jon

 

[wilbjr21]

Interesting analogy Jon, but what prepartion would you suggest could be needed on a 1200 in terms of reliability.

OK here goes:

Decent crash bars that protect as much as possible

The electrical plugs and sockets need the contacts coating with ACF 50 gease or similar to stop corrosion caused by water spray and not being able to wash and dry the bike. The CAN Bus system has already proved it's reliability - after all it's only a pair of wires, and modern electronics are pretty good - just look at a computer. And the bike doesn't need any fuses brilliant.

A larger capacity battery would not go amiss as many accessories will be used.

That should do - set up for twice around the world - just tyres and oil.

 

[Timolgra]

That should do - set up for twice around the world - just tyres and oil.

Walter Mitty

A person, generally quite ordinary or ineffectual, who indulges in fantastic daydreams of personal triumphs. For example, He's a Walter Mitty about riding in a rodeo but is actually afraid of horses. This term comes from James Thurber's short story, The Secret Life of Walter Mitty (1939), describing just such a character.

 

[wilbjr21]

Walter Mitty

A person, generally quite ordinary or ineffectual, who indulges in fantastic daydreams of personal triumphs. For example, He's a Walter Mitty about riding in a rodeo but is actually afraid of horses. This term comes from James Thurber's short story, The Secret Life of Walter Mitty (1939), describing just such a character

No just common sense and shouldn't you be working

 

[cookiemonster]

Walter Mitty

A person, generally quite ordinary or ineffectual, who indulges in fantastic daydreams of personal triumphs. For example, He's a Walter Mitty about riding in a rodeo but is actually afraid of horses. This term comes from James Thurber's short story, The Secret Life of Walter Mitty (1939), describing just such a character.

LOL - this is coming from someone who gives his location as "cuckoo land"

 

[Timolgra]

LOL - this is coming from someone who gives his location as "cuckoo land"

Takes one to know one

 

[chasr]

Haven't ridden a 1200 ............ I remember a Kiwi in the paddock at the TT suggesting that the drive-shaft was suspect---god knows how he knew that 'cos mine was one of the first 1100s on the road. .............Haven't had much to add to the reliability or otherwise of the 1200 but posts both here and on American web-sites would indicate there's usually 'no smoke without fire' and having had the unbreakable 1100GS it's a sad day to see BMW coming out with a newer, supposedly unreliable model.

You got upset with someone who didn't know what they were taking about
Then, with no experience of the bike, you make generalisations about the 1200's reliability on the basis of what you've read on various threads.

yeah, right

 

[Shep]

Walter Mitty

A person, generally quite ordinary or ineffectual, who indulges in fantastic daydreams of scrambler triumphs. For example, He's a Walter Mitty about riding a 1200GS but is actually afraid of 1200GS. This term comes from James Thurber's short story, The Secret Life of a welsh hill hermit (1939), describing just such a character.

Fixed it

Shep

 

[Wizard]

Ah, the voice of reason.

Firstly, go and check out the American voting system before you start relating it to UKGSer polls.

Secondly, my post was to guffter6969, it was his bike I refered to as a lemon, not yours.

Thirdly....... I couldn't be arsed, I really couldn't. You will read whatever you want into whatever I post, regardless of the truth. So, here it is.

If you're not happy with the 1200, off and tell someone who cares. Most of us on here don't.

 

[Schwarz Baron]

Excellent

I sometimes wonder that if BMW re-introduced the 1100GS, at £6.5k whether it would sell. Maybe tart up the front end a bit. The weight's pretty much the same as the 1200 (which is what put me off the 1150). I would have been interested. And, after all, what else is there?

Tiger = chain
VStrom = ugly, and depreceates
Multistrada = like it, great noise, but poor residuals & no dealer back-up
Varadero = chain, fuel consumption, depreceation & ugly
KTM = Cr*p FI. Fuel range - not. Even KTM admit tank isn't big enough.

Scrambler anyone? (I've got a Bonnie T100 and it's a hoot ++)

I was going to reply with some reasoned arguement then I read this post, hopefully I'll still be reasoned:

Some stats on the R1100GS, especially with regards to weight;

Download







Start of Production
1993


Click to View

End of Production
1999

Numbers Produced
39,842

Price
17,450 DM

Engine


Motor Type
Four-stroke, two cylinder, horizontally opposed "Boxer" engine, air cooled

Bore x Stroke
99 x 70.5 mm (3.89 x 2.77 in)

Displacement
1085 cc

Max Power
80 hp (59 KW) at 6,750 rpm or 78 hp (58 Kw) at 6,500 rpm

Max Torque
97 Nm / 71 ft lb at 5,500rpm

Dimensions/Weights


Length x Width x Height
2189 x 920 x 1366 mm (86.18 x 36.22 x 53.77 in)

Wheel Base
1509 mm / 59.40 in

Fuel Tank Capacity
25 litres / 5.5 gal / 6.60 gal US

Unladen Weight with Full Tank
243 Kg / 535 lb

Max. Permissible Weight
450 Kg / 991 lb

Ground Clearance
200 mm / 7.87 in

Seat Height (Unladen)
840 / 860 mm (33.07 / 33.858 inches)

Fuel Consumption (at constant 90 Kph)
4.6 litres per 100 Km / 61 mpg / 51 mpg US

Top Speed
195 Kph / 121 mph

Acceleration 0 - 100 Kph / 62 mph
4.3 seconds


I have had all three models, heres is my view:

BMW R1100GS;
Great bike, very robost, very reliable, although the seal between th gearbox linkage and clutch leaked at 7000 miles and fried the clutch. Faulty seal replaced, no further problems. Heavy and under powered.


So the people shouted loudly more power, more power. So BM produced the goods, and I bought one

BMW R1150GS ADV;

Superb build quality, no mechanical problems whatsoever, still a bit of a porker, still could do with a bit more power, excellant bike all round, let down slightly by the fork corrosion, replaced under warranty..

And the people shouted still more power less weight, and so BMW responded. Using lighter materials, bigger more powerful engine. To keep costs down they used plastic instead of titantium,(sensible).

So I bought one

BMW R1200GS ADV.

So far superb bike, plenty of power, feels way lighter than the 1150. No quality control issues. As to it or the standard 1200 being the same weight as the R1100 GS, I don't think so....


BMW are responding to feed back, the 12 is more plastic as that's what keeps weight down funny enough, combine that with 100bhp, I think they have chosen the right path. although the 12 wins no styling awards from me. but it is certainly heading in the right direction as far as development is concerned . The 12 weighs in at 195kg. Even the 12ADV is still lighter by 10kgs

 

[Timolgra]

The 12 weighs in at 195kg. Even the 12ADV is still lighter by 10kgs

When considering the weight of your average GSer and the bolt on bits, I dont think a few Kgs saving makes up for lack of robust build

 

[Schwarz Baron]

When considering the weight of your average GSer and the bolt on bits, I dont think a few Kgs saving makes up for lack of robust build

But answer me this Tim. If people want a lighter bike, what are BM to do. They definately were getting away from the offroad thing with the 1150ADV, as much as I loved it, for its robust build, and presence, it was still too heavy. The only way BM could lighten things was use plastics where they could instead of metal. Yes its going to make the bike slightly more fragile, but also much lighter, IN STANDARD TRIM, ofcourse. And generally plastics are cheaper to produce and replace, as opposed to fabricated metals. The 1150's ADV tank was 500 quid to replace. The 12ADV's tank is high impact plastic, and caged in crash bars. It was totally protected as I proved recently. The rest of the bits can be replaced, if they get damaged individually as opposed to the older models, one piece units.

I only mentioned the comparison in weight thing as it was claimed the 1100 was as light as the 12, which is Tosh!

I loved my 1100 and 1150, as much as I love my 12, but for me, the 12 especially the ADV is a great replacement for the 1150 ADV. For now it has the right amount of power and weight, with no problems so far....fingers crossed. But using lighter internals to lighten and enhance an engines performance may also add to its fragility

 

[Davel]

A great bike but one that I wish I could climb on and off without looking like a total pratt!

 

[marcus]

just to regurgitate my earlier posts:

My 1st 12GS from Nov 04 was a pile of shite.
1st gearbox gone at 140 ish miles
2 other gearboxes gone
repeated electrickery problems
repeated battery problems.
repeated calls to the AA (BMW assist being a bunch of incompetents in my experience)



Bike taken away by BMW and replaced with a new one at somewhat advantageous terms (to me) I thought I'd give the 12GS another go, maybe I got a friday after lunch at the octoberfest bike.

12GS no 2 (06 bike) has a significant number of changes to the earlier bike, which suggests earlier "features" of the 12 have been sorted out.

Nothing gone wrong at all, absolute dream.

Conclusions

Never buy an early model of a new machine. You will be an unpaid product tester and risk having a troubled time.

Kick up a stink in a calm, professional manner with the right people (and the right advice, from here, for example) and BMW should look after you.


Just because machines come off a production line doesn't mean they are the same (or there is consistent quality control!)

I've ridden about a dozen and they are all different.

 

[Pressurized]

Firstly, go and check out the American voting system before you start relating it to UKGSer polls.

I'm pretty familiar with their collegiate system and you are right that it doesn't really relate to the forum's pools. What I was saying is that polls can be flawed.

Secondly, my post was to guffter6969, it was his bike I refered to as a lemon, not yours.

Yup, you're right, you did, sorry.

If you're not happy with the 1200, off and tell someone who cares. Most of us on here don't.

No. At best these are the words of someone in denial, at worst, well, guess for yourself. In seeking to suppress my opinions, you seek to deny others what may or may not be useful, interesting information. I've been looking at other bikes' sites recently and this is the sort of post that helps people make an informed decision by letting them choose whether the words are rubbish, whether they're well-intended but misinformed or whether they've foundation. Your attitude is abhorrent. If you don't like what someone's saying you can choose whether to refute them or just ignore them.

 

[Pressurized]

You didn't rebuff my point about the spark plugs. Can't really lay the blame at BMW's door for those, surely?

Didn't think it was rebuffable, I agreed with you silently.

You said earlier that dealer's don't tend to argue about warranty issues, but that's simply not true in my experience.

I was referring only to BMW dealers, I haven't any first-hand experience of other dealers. Mine's been pretty good with all the issues the bike's had.

At the end of the day, you suffered 2 final drive failures - a known fault.

No, it was the thread-starter who had the drive failures. Mine's fine, so far.

My first 1200 had developed some play - <1mm, and the dealer was going to change the final drive when I was offered a part-ex on a new '06 model I couldn't refuse. But that 1mm of play wouldn't have stopped me touring.

A much more valid reason for getting a second one than the one I implied! Sorry.

You are fed up with the 1200, and are looking elsewhere. Good for you. But I think you are guilty of over-egging the pudding. Spark plugs, indeed

I'm not totally fed up with it, it's probably just slipped to second or third on my list of next bikes but I may keep it if the KTM isn't good enough or I can extend the warranty more cheaply on the one I've got. It is a brilliant bike to ride.

I appreciate your comments.

 

[Pressurized]

...but only an imbicile...

You mean 'imbecile'.

 

[Wizard]

No. At best these are the words of someone in denial, at worst, well, guess for yourself.

They are plainly and simply the words of someone who is fed up with the same old whinging day in and day out.

All bikes have owners with issues.
All bikes are marketed as something they really are not.

I say again, if you're that concerned that every single 1200 is a bundle, go and get something else. Don't segue, don't use sophistry, don't gloss over valid parts of other peoples posts to make your argument seem stronger than it is.

As for those who think that the 1150 is in some way better, answer me this. Why, if it's so good, do people use aftermarket crash bars, panniers, bash plates? Is it perhaps because the OE for the 1150 isn't really up to the really rough stuff any more than the OE for the 1200?

I really am fed up with this now, there is a huge element of flogging a can of dog food involved in these circular arguments. Whatever people ride, as long as they're not trying to wipe me out, they can do whatever the hell they like. Even buy a KTM........ just as long as I get to see the list of panels required after you drop it