GS build quality

[markymark]

I've looked at a few GS's on 08, 09, 10 plates & they seem very corroded & rough looking around the discs, calipers & engine bolts, is this normal for such new bikes ?
Or is it because they have been used all year round or kept outside ?
It would Pi** me off if I'd spent £12K on a new bike for all the bolts to go rusty in a very short time.

 

[peter-k]

Not all, but the ones around the areas you mentioned. The galvanized bolts are quite sensitive to salt water. As far as I observed at times there is abundantly used in UK.

 

[TeaPig]

I've looked at a few GS's on 08, 09, 10 plates & they seem very corroded & rough looking around the discs, calipers & engine bolts, is this normal for such new bikes ?
Or is it because they have been used all year round or kept outside ?

I guess the term 'very corroded' is subjective. To me it would mean rusted through until you could see daylight behind, wheras to someone more aesthetically sensitive, it may just mean the shine had worn off.

I've run GS's and other bikes through the last 30 winters, they get covered in salt which may get washed off once a week if I can be bothered. I've never used AC50, WD40 etc. And yes they corrode, but I would expect nothing else, and for 12k I'm pleased to get stainless pipes. Remarkably, however, come spring, the stainless will polish up and any surface rust on the disks etc. can be rapidy removed with various magic concoctions and flashed over with a bit of silver spray paint if necessay. When I've finsihed the bike looks as good as new.

Like for like, BMW's are not much more expensive than their japanese equivelant. Honda's, in my experience, have the best finish of the 'big 4', but under the plastic all those little black brackets, hose ends and fixings corrode very rapidly. Suzuki's collapse into constituent atoms if left outside for a single night.

So, whilst clearly not suitable for marine use, GS's in my opinion are less prone to corrosion than any other common make of motorcycle. Yes, there are a few alarming tales of early onset rot which may be due to poor quality control, but there's no way a bike used in winter, or even in the rain is not going to corrode to some extent - not unless we accept an even higher purchace price to pay for stainless fittings all round etc.

At the end of the day it's a bike and not a bit of jewelry.

 

[GSmonkey]

you'll get pissed off then

 

[D6]

like he says, its a bike, and bikes rust, however i do find the newer ones are rusting quicker than the older bmw,s, infact iv seen more corrosion on 3 year old gs,s and k,s than on jap bikes over the last few years,(and tbh, poor manufacturing sometimes)...
lets hope the new 2010/11 ones are better

 

[cherokee]

corrosion........

IMHO i dont think the build quality is great,i guess it depends on how you view your bike,if its a workhorse used in all weathers,is'nt cleaned much,then its gonna corode quicker than if you wrap it in cotton wool and polish it often.But iv owned an 1150 gsa and a 1200gsa and i dont think there build quality is that great out of the box,niether of mine had been used in winter salt yet engine paint was flaking,front fork stantion lowers were badly marked,the paint on the frame was so thin any stone hits just took the paint off,dont get me wrong i think they are great bikes,but they are designed for shite conditions and yet if you wanted to keep one looking immaculate it was like pissing in the wind.Plenty will chime in and say "mine was driven through swamps,salt mines,gravel pits and its still like new"well mine was'nt and was hard to keep like new.The older 1100s were much better made the guys that own them do use them in anger and all the ones i see look great for the abuse,so not sure what that says?just guess it really is true when people say "they dont make them like they used to".........

 

[Davy F]

I believe that the modern BMW suffers (more than earlier models) from poor finish due to the use of water based paints which was brought into the manufacturing arena by environmental issues (and cars these days too suffer from a lesser quality paint too). With such an exposed engine, it's not suprising that there are so many warrenty claims for front covers etc. As for the nuts and bolts and stuff, well, it's not like they use the highest quality components due to cost. But the biggest factor is the way the bike is treated by its owner.

 

[Rasher]

I think build quality on everything on the planet has gone down, everyone wants cheap these days, firms who traditionally sold on quality have had to start fighting on price.

My parents / Grandparents used to say "you only get what you pay for" and "if a jobs worth doing it is worth doing properly". These days few people do a proper job or take pride in their work and when shopping price is the only consideration for the majority of people.

As someone famous said "People today know the price of everything and the value of nothing" or something like that.

Paint is definately worse, I have noticed car paint chips far easier these days and I have a mate with a paintshop who tells me that is the way it is these days, he probably waffled on about why, but I can't remember.

Not that I think for £10k an extra £20 per bike on better fasteners should not be possible, or that components such as EWS and FPC should not be reliable as making electronics reliable is very easy these days (Unless you put the spec out to tender and go with the cheapest quote from China)

My ZZR Tank rusted after one summer, it was kept in a heated garage and except when touring rarely saw rain and was dried after washing / returning from getting wet, Kawasaki implied it was my fault and I had to fight hard to get it replaced, and then I had to get my mate to modify it to stop it rusting in the same place again. It also had a few fasteners going a bit dull / furry.

The BMW "looks" good to me, paint on engine looks thick and it generally looks quite well put together, replacing the odd bolt is not hard. Do not forget they do not want them to last forever either, otherwise they would not sell new ones so quickly, I remember repairing 10 year old TV's and telling the owners there good for a few more years (back in the late 80's) these days you hope they last 3 years and throw them away when they go wrong.

The silver lining with any of the quality issues is that "they all do that sir" so when selling a well looked after bike will be comparitively better than an unloved one, and buyers expectations will be based on the typical condition of that bike / year.

Personally I would rather have a mechanically sound and reliable machine with a few rusty fasteners than something with amazing paint quality that breaks down a lot, a pity the 1200GS fails on both counts.

It is very sad for those with OCD that are used to keeping vehicles looking like new for ten years - go buy a classic

 

[ELIMINATOR]

Finish on my 98 Yamaha Diversion is holding out better than the 1150GS. I ride through the winter on both bikes, both sprayed with ACF50, the Divvy's previous owner left it outside, considering it's 6 years older than the GS, it's condition is better.

 

[Toad]

At the end of the day it's a bike and not a bit of jewelry.

 

[TeaPig]

IMHO i dont think the build quality is great,i guess it depends on how you view your bike,.The older 1100s were much better made the guys that own them do use them in anger and all the ones i see look great for the abuse,so not sure what that says?Motomartin

I think you're right, the build quality isn't 'great' but it's still better than the rest. It's technologically easy to improve build quality but I'm sure BM, like everyone else, builds to a price which maximises sales and profit, not longevity.

As to the 1100's being better, well I'm not convinced. I did similar milages (close to 100k) on an 1100, two 1150's and a 1200. All suffered from corroded front covers, all had FD failures, the alloy bits furred up, the stainless went brown etc etc. I honestly haven't seen in a decline in finish quality or resiliance to the elements.

I reckon your observation of many well used 1100's that are in good nick is mostly down to the fact that they are owned and loved by bikers, perhaps less well heeled than those with a new 1200, who get on with riding and enjoying their bikes, and sorting out any problems without fussing or worrying too much

 

[John Armstrong]

I reckon your observation of many well used 1100's that are in good nick is mostly down to the fact that they are owned and loved by bikers, perhaps less well heeled than those with a new 1200, who get on with riding and enjoying their bikes, and sorting out any problems without fussing or worrying too much

You'll get some reaction on that statement I guess

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

You'll get some reaction on that statement I guess

Aye......................go tell that to Vern, with his 1100GS with over 200,000 miles on it, he never uses it

 

[D6]

i agree wi tea pig,
perhaps more 1200 riders expect more, theres a lot of people out there expect more if they pay a lot more,and expect it to keep going forever, its not always true..
especially with some of the bmw,s nowadays, you either get a good un or a bad one , bmw,s quality control and research needs looking at

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Having had 1100GS's and 1150GS's and a 12GSA................I think the earlier bikes were better finished without doubt

The 6 mth old 2008 MU 12GSA I had, was a lot worse condition after 4000 miles than my 3yo (at the time) 1150GSA with 18,000 miles on it..............both with summer use

Plus the 12GSA was harder to keep clean and to clean......................so it went

 

[TeaPig]

I believe that the modern BMW suffers (more than earlier models) from poor finish due to the use of water based paints which was brought into the manufacturing arena by environmental issues (and cars these days too suffer from a lesser quality paint too). .

I reckon you'd need to go back at least 20 years to find a factory paint shop not using a water based paint, probably longer so I doubt any of the oil-head BMW's have seen anything different.

It's not just the type of paint either, it's the application. In the baddest of the bad old days the last Meridan triumphs were coming off the line with a flash of black paint on the frame so thin and unprimed the first wash would fetch half of it off.

 

[D6]

I reckon you'd need to go back at least 20 years to find a factory paint shop not using a water based paint, probably longer so I doubt any of the oil-head BMW's have seen anything different.

It's not just the type of paint either, it's the application.

i think the older bikes was using different paint (so i got told?)
must agree though, its more the application process

 

[Stretchamus]

Picked up new 3/4/10 ridden through summer months 7k miles, not been ridden for last six weeks so never seen salt.

I have never owned a bike that has rusted with summer use only, I have now, discs and abs thingy, I now use WD all over, even in summer.
You figure it out

All my Jap bikes have been better than my BMW re corrosion

Best regards Stretch

 

[muppix]

I'm bound to get shot down in flames for saying this but ...

I don't think you can judge a manufacturer's build quality by glancing at a bike's condition unless you know how it's been treated from day one.

I bought my GS1200 new because I didn't want to worry about its history and the prospect of a warranty was attractive. Given how much I spent on it, I look after it in a manner which is representative of the effort it took to get the money together. I thought that was normal?

No, it's not wrapped in cotton wool, it does 15k a year on and off road, much of it in salty conditions. The difference is that if I know it's been exposed to elements which might compromise the finish, I factor in extra time after each ride to get it clean. 10 minutes with some traffic film remover, careful use of a pressure washer, and some FS365 applied before storage strikes me as a small price to pay in order to keep a 3 year old bike looking like new.

 

[Paul Wakefield]

the spec out to tender and go with the cheapest quote from China

Don't knock it. A client of mine buys a lot of parts from China, many bespoke, not because they are the cheapest (though they are) but because they are the best quality.

As for BM quality over the recent past (last 20 years), I am not sure it has changed that much. The only bike that left me stranded in the middle of nowhere - an 1100, the bike with the worst finish - an 1150; the bike with the most irritating faults - a 1200. For reliability the 1200s are at last fairly well sorted (EWS and FPC, as long as recalls have been done, are largely a thing of the past) - the notable exception being the final drive.

But plus ca change, look back at the early history of the 1100 and there was all sorts of slagging off at the time about reliability (and I think finish - though I am not certain I recall that correctly); the final drive of the 1150 and the fork brace paint once had dodgy reputations. It's a mixture I suspect of the better examples having survived, model issues gradually being resolved during the production cycle and, maybe, rose tinted spectacles. More moaning about the 1200 is just as likely to be due to the far higher volumes sold and the growth of internet forums as much as a decline in finish.

Having said that there is no doubt a tendency to build down to a price (always been the case really but perhaps now more pronounced) and that probably started in the late nineties when BM realised they were pricing themselves out of the market - prices came down substantially; I remember my 1150GS dropped in price betwen the time I ordered it and the time I took delivery. Something must have given to achieve that reduction. I think this is reflected mainly in the finish.

I am told that the 2010 models are much better finished with more layers of paint; it will be interesting to see how they survive this Winter.