GS or Africa twin?

[Boner]

I too have been to the Dave Thorpe Honda AT Experience, and it was bloody fantastic! A cracking couple of days spent getting muddy and realising the true potential of what adventure bikes truly can do. I'd thoroughly recommend going even if you have no intention of buying an AT.
The DCT bike is very good on road and even better off road. Would I buy one? Yes.
That said, I then visited CW Motorcycles and took out their Demo R1200GS w/c. I was blown away by it. In my opinion, a much better bike on the road than the AT offering massive confidence banging through the twisty lanes surrounding Dorchester. So much so that I rolled past a Speed camera van going a little too quickly - still waiting to see if I get away with that! If I wanted to take a GS properly off road, I'd pay my money and go and do the Simon Pavey thing to build my skills on a GS.
If i had to choose between the two bikes; it'd be the GS every time. It just has a reassuring build quality, finish and quality which Honda's (admittedly £5K cheaper model) AT didn't.
Just my opinion.
Boner.

 

[Bobster]

At v Gs

I am fortunate enough to have owned both. BMW build quality better than the AT. Not a chance. I love BMs but I have not got rose tinted spectacles. They are overpriced and unreliable. However, they have that perceived aire of quality and great performance. I personally prefer the BM on road but off road AT every time. A Simon Pavey course will not make a lardy BM as good as the AT that is unless you have his skill sets and even then it is doubtful. If you truly use a bike for both on and off road for me it is the AT by a mile. However, if you mainly want a missile with great load capacity and crap paint it has to be BMW, but don't forget the very necessary and expensive extended warranty.

 

[Bendy toy]

Tele forks dive on the brakes (which I find annoying on road), but its handy off road for popping the front end up. Dab front brake then throttle and the front will pop over a log. BMW wont bounce the front end up.

So if you want off road ability, get a KTM or maybe the AT. Personally I think any 1/4 ton bike is far too heavy for offload so that rules out the AT as well as the GS.

 

[GeorgeM]

I can fix a chain at the road side you cannot say the same for a final drive -

Not when it smashes through the gearbox casing

 

[GeorgeM]

I think it has more in common with a KTM. Except for being a lot cheaper!
Not really to my tastes, but does seem to be good value.
Didn't realise it ran tubed tyres. Always been wary of tubed tyres since the front wheel on my Honda 350 picked up a big screw at about 40mph and deflated fast. The bike moved across the road and lay down. Nothing I could do. Fortunately, nothing coming the other way.
Agree with bendy that if manufacturers are going to continue to use chains, it's about time they offered real world protection for them. Wouldn't suit all types of buyers but there are plenty of models where it would be a plus.
Even a fully integrated chain oiler would be a big advantage. Although, I notice BMW offer one as an accessory for their chain driven models.
Notice on the AT forum there have been a few issues with switches and corrosion. Wait a minute, they do have something in common with a GS!
Final drives are a touchy subject with me at the moment.

It's the uneven tension caused by the single side arm if they reverted to a twin spar swing arm the problems would disappear.

 

[Engineer]

Test riding an Africa Twin tomorrow morning - the proper one with a clutch though, not the scooter version

 

[uncle buck]

Took a AT out for a test today. Felt light and nimble, has a fruity exhaust note. Slick Honda box what's not to like. Firstly for me the seat was a plank and I didn't really gell riding position wise. Screen as on most bikes Oem wise would need changing. Dash I found
Difficult to read and I don't like digital speedo. Overall typical Honda well built and easy to ride. Would I buy one?, probably not new one. As an all rounder I still prefer my gs.

 

[Bendy toy]

It's the uneven tension caused by the single side arm if they reverted to a twin spar swing arm the problems would disappear.

Intersting point. The the Honda CX500 and Yamaha Diversion 900 use the same final drive box with very few problems and the Yammie is handling 2x the power of the CX. Both have twin spar swing arms and both have a rubber cush drive between wheel and drive box. My Yam had 75K on the clock with absolutely no signs of final drive problems. Apart from oil changes, all the back end ever had was new wheel bearings when I had the wheels powder coated.

The Yammie also had it's first valve clearance check at 75K (not ideal I know). One exhaust valve was 0.02 below the 0.21 minimum. All others were within limits. The cam lobes were hardly even polished and when I whipped off a bearing cap the machining marks were still visible.

All very impressive for a budget bike with annoying buzzing vibration. It's such a shame the finish and cycle parts were not to the same standard.

 

[comberjohn]

Agree that it is an interesting observation but not convinced a twin spar swing arm would make any difference.
The K100/75's all had a single side transmission and failure was rare. Just required an occasional spline lube and many went well into three figures with no issues.
Seem to remember more problems when they went to the Paralever with the 16v engines.

 

[Bendy toy]

I beleive the big wins for Yamaha were the cush drive between wheel and final drive splines and the wheel having it's own wheel bearings. The FD suffers less driveline shock and has no external side loading on any of it's bearings.

The back end is less pretty than the R1200 but by the time you put an exhaust silencer can on each side you can hardly see the swing arm.

 

[Engineer]

First impressions and random observations from my test ride.

Not ugly, not beautiful, big skinny front wheel looks odd, silencer, gear change lever look a bit budget, clutch and brake levers look and feel a bit short, hand grips feel short and fat, engine finish looks very nice. Nothing to make you stop and stare and think 'that's cool, nothing unique as far as the looks go - it's just big a 'trail bike'. Screen looks far to small for road use.

Sit on bike and OMG it feels like a pogo stick compared to the GS.

Start engine - lovely tick over burble.
Throttle feels a bit stiff compared to the GS and initial pick-up is a bit sharp in 1st gear.
Seems to handle ok on back roads at normal speeds, very twitchy to the slightest input via the bars, bit unnerving at first but always corrects itself - same thing at dual carriage way speeds, slight tap on the bars and it wriggles more than I expected, soft suspension and big skinny flappy front wheel again I guess. Screen too noisy for me even with earplugs, can't be adjusted.

Can't read the effing console in bright sunlight, speed reading ok but rev counter bloody invisible!

Engine is nice, responsive, torquey(ish) but not GS levels.

Gearbox works fine apart from a couple of scary false neutrals, I hate that!

Seat is a bloody plank! Everyone's arse is different but this no bloody good for 500 mile touring days.

Cables obscure bottom of console, irritating.

Buzzy through the bars at all revs, not horrible but would get on my nerves after a few hours on the motorway.

Dives too much on the brakes.

Goes around corners ok, but does not have the same level of reassurance that the GS has.

Riding this bike has made me realise just how bloody good the Telever/paralever suspension on the GS is, long travel conventional forks just don't come close for all round usability.

Overall - not bad but was way over hyped by the press - it doesn't even get close to being the best all round adventure bike, but there again it is built down to a budget, which is fine.

The AT is compromised too much towards off-road use to even come close the breadth of usability of the GS, fact!

In its environment of 'let's do Morocco and some sand' then it will probably slay the GS but its function is limited to that and quick 50 mile bazz abouts on a Sunday.

Had a look at the matching Honda top box and panniers, hmmmmmm look very much 'made in Hong Kong' to me - best not go there!

Would I ever consider one? Well if I was a regular Morocco bound type solo rider it might be worth having one in the garage alongside the GS, as long as I could ship it over and not ride the thing all the way down there.

Would I want to ride this everyday?, no..... Would I want to do 500 mile days two up with luggage and then play on the Alpine roads? hmmmmmmm no.

The GS is a 'real do everything bike', the Africa Twin will be a great plaything in the right environment.

Here endeth my review.

 

[Bendy toy]

Brake dive and twitchy steering with that hinged weave on most other bikes are what took me to the GS.

I go on about Hossack but really can't see why big makers refuse to talk to him. His front end would cost less to build, have less weight, better steering lock and no brake dive. What's not to like, but they insist on remaining with heavily compromised tele forks.

 

[Engineer]

Brake dive and twitchy steering with that hinged weave on most other bikes are what took me to the GS.

I go on about Hossack but really can't see why big makers refuse to talk to him. His front end would cost less to build, have less weight, better steering lock and no brake dive. What's not to like, but they insist on remaining with heavily compromised tele forks.

Wish more bikes would go down the Hossack route too.

 

[Nutty]

Nice review, Will.

They can't accuse you of being an armchair critic any more.

 

[Engineer]

Nice review, Will.

They can't accuse you of being an armchair critic any more.

it had to be done.

 

[Arsey]

GS or Africa Twin ? Based on sales this year,it would seem folks want a proper bike ! The best selling bike so far in 2016 doesn't have a BMW roundel on the tank !


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[JohnnyBoxer]

First impressions and random observations from my test ride.

Not ugly, not beautiful, big skinny front wheel looks odd, silencer, gear change lever look a bit budget, clutch and brake levers look and feel a bit short, hand grips feel short and fat, engine finish looks very nice. Nothing to make you stop and stare and think 'that's cool, nothing unique as far as the looks go - it's just big a 'trail bike'. Screen looks far to small for road use.

Sit on bike and OMG it feels like a pogo stick compared to the GS.

Start engine - lovely tick over burble.
Throttle feels a bit stiff compared to the GS and initial pick-up is a bit sharp in 1st gear.
Seems to handle ok on back roads at normal speeds, very twitchy to the slightest input via the bars, bit unnerving at first but always corrects itself - same thing at dual carriage way speeds, slight tap on the bars and it wriggles more than I expected, soft suspension and big skinny flappy front wheel again I guess. Screen too noisy for me even with earplugs, can't be adjusted.

Can't read the effing console in bright sunlight, speed reading ok but rev counter bloody invisible!

Engine is nice, responsive, torquey(ish) but not GS levels.

Gearbox works fine apart from a couple of scary false neutrals, I hate that!

Seat is a bloody plank! Everyone's arse is different but this no bloody good for 500 mile touring days.

Cables obscure bottom of console, irritating.

Buzzy through the bars at all revs, not horrible but would get on my nerves after a few hours on the motorway.

Dives too much on the brakes.

Goes around corners ok, but does not have the same level of reassurance that the GS has.

Riding this bike has made me realise just how bloody good the Telever/paralever suspension on the GS is, long travel conventional forks just don't come close for all round usability.

Overall - not bad but was way over hyped by the press - it doesn't even get close to being the best all round adventure bike, but there again it is built down to a budget, which is fine.

The AT is compromised too much towards off-road use to even come close the breadth of usability of the GS, fact!

In its environment of 'let's do Morocco and some sand' then it will probably slay the GS but its function is limited to that and quick 50 mile bazz abouts on a Sunday.

Had a look at the matching Honda top box and panniers, hmmmmmm look very much 'made in Hong Kong' to me - best not go there!

Would I ever consider one? Well if I was a regular Morocco bound type solo rider it might be worth having one in the garage alongside the GS, as long as I could ship it over and not ride the thing all the way down there.

Would I want to ride this everyday?, no..... Would I want to do 500 mile days two up with luggage and then play on the Alpine roads? hmmmmmmm no.

The GS is a 'real do everything bike', the Africa Twin will be a great plaything in the right environment.

Here endeth my review.

Nice prose

Real world review & demonstrates why the GS & GSA is still no. 1

 

[Arsey]

Predictable bollocks from a narrow-minded muppet demonstrates why the GS & GSA is still no. 1 for those with no imagination

Well said JB !

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Well said JB !

Ha

The AT will soon slump down the hit parade, once the fizz has gone flat and people realise it's just another F800 GS clone

Boxer GS sales won't be troubled long term

I have a mate who bought a DCT one - took it back for it's first Service & left it there for them to sell

He prefers his 1200 GS Twin Cam

 

[Nutty]

GS or Africa Twin ? Based on new registrations this year, I'm very excited and delusional it would seem !

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Fixed!

There was an Africa Twin at Bahnstormer yesterday for sale. The owner had done a few hundred miles, before trading it back in against another GS.