GS or Africa twin?

[Bendy toy]

Price has to be big part of it. The Honda looks the part for 60% of the cost. But why have Trumpets failed to compete?

GS or Africa Twin ? Based on sales this year,it would seem folks want a proper bike ! The best selling bike so far in 2016 doesn't have a BMW roundel on the tank !

Of course it's not because bikers are so narrow minded they must have what they had last time. Tele forks look proper. Those BMW funny front ends can't be any good so stay with what I know.

Chain drive - ditto It what you do. Innit
Crappy screen - ditto (but it looks good)
High level silencer that sticks out the side case like a filing cabinet. Its the only way. Honda's Dullsville proved anything else is rubbish.

 

[Davy F]

Couldn't care less if everyone else doesn't like the AT....I like it, and that to me is what's important. And that's what also makes us all individual. So enjoy what you own, the rest just doesn't matter.

 

[Bendy toy]

Any bike that does what you want it to for 1/2 the costs of "the best" bike has to be good.

I just wish the manufacturers would think out of the box. Costs would come down and we could have better bikes.

 

[Engineer]

BMW aren't scared to do things differently and it has paid off, would be nice if prices were lower but I suspect that the economies of scale will never be there for motorcycles compared to cars.

 

[Nutty]

Couldn't care less if everyone else doesn't like the AT....I like it, and that to me is what's important. And that's what also makes us all individual. So enjoy what you own, the rest just doesn't matter.

I agree.

FWIW, the Africa Twins I've seen look like great bikes. Just not for me, that's all.

 

[Bendy toy]

BMW have done a lot more innovation than anyone else but even they have serious blind spots. So much of of my bike is so complicated & must have cost a fortune to make.

Rear sub frame is fine but then it has a heavy plastic resin carrier cover under the seat. The GSA then has heavy stainless tube frames bolted to that resin cover. Why did they not simply put the alloy cases onto brackets the same as the vario cases.

LH side case has a huge afterthought cut away because the exhaust is in the way. Tat exhaust could have been made oval instead of cylindrical and run parallel to the wheel. Case space solved and more space in the silencer to meet noise regs.

Front beak looks great but why does it have that hugely complex tube frame underneath. They already used resin at the back why did thy not use a moulding for the front frame. It could even have carried the beak all in one. Again they did what they always do. No innovation.

The Telelever is heavy and costly. The bare front swing arm is heavier than the back swing arm alone. Its not taking any engine forces so what's all that weight about?
The sliding forks are costly to make and then we have that pricey shock absorber.

The Hossack system could have looked the same but costs would have been slashed. Hossack proved that with his 1980s K bikes conversions. BMW ignored him.

The bike does a great job and is way ahead of the competition but it could have been even better and built for less money. All it needed was some genuine design thinking.

 

[Packer]

BMW have done a lot more innovation than anyone else but even they have serious blind spots.

Serious question, what innovations are down to BMW?

Some of the complexity of the GS seems unnecessary, e.g. the paralever rear suspension. My shaft drive S10 doesn't suffer any significant jacking and doesn't have the complexity of those additional bearings and tie bar. A double sided swing arm may not be as elegant as a single sider but I don't expect to have FD issues in under 100,000 miles.

With regard to folk wanting a Hossack front end isn't the suspension travel an issue for the Hossack concept?

 

[Bendy toy]

Serious question, what innovations are down to BMW?

You are of course right but I was thinking in relative terms. Relative to every other bike maker.

Some of the complexity of the GS seems unnecessary, e.g. the paralever rear suspension. My shaft drive S10 doesn't suffer any significant jacking and doesn't have the complexity of those additional bearings and tie bar. A double sided swing arm may not be as elegant as a single sider but I don't expect to have FD issues in under 100,000 miles.

My Diversion 900 didn't jack on the power. I believe the rising rate linkage helped. Soft going up from the bottom end but hard coming down at the same point. It also had a twin arm suspension an weedy looking FD that showed zero problems at 75K and I believe has now gone well over 100K.

I suspect BMW fitted the Paralever as bling but the forks wont dive on the bakes so can't pop the front wheel off road. Making the paralever squat the back end under power sort of helped it out.

With regard to folk wanting a Hossack front end isn't the suspension travel an issue for the Hossack concept?

It depends how long you make the swing arms. His mountain bike has 100mm of fork travel but the arms are very short. It also depends where you put the shock absorber. Vertical (as he usually does) allows a cheaper unit. Diagonal gives a better movement range but needs a more costly shock and the arms have to be wide enough to make space. Also the angled shock isn't direct drive so might also need heavier parts to handle the additional forces.

The issue for most Hossacks was the need to fit an exiting bike frame. Hence the vertical shock and relatively short swing arms. A Hossack "could" give a very long suspension stroke on an R1200. The existing swing arm is humungously long. Another arm on a new top subframe could give loads of wheel travel.

 

[richardbd]

I agree.

FWIW, the Africa Twins I've seen look like great bikes. Just not for me, that's all.

Only because they don't do a low seat version...

 

[Bendy toy]

Honda seem to be on a roll. Even the humble CB500 now looks a desirable bike.

 

[Arsey]

Only because they don't do a low seat version...

They do