Has your FD exploded yet?

[Rasher]

Yeah I agree too - my final drive is fine so I couldn't be arsed to vote

Well it is like the damn government, if you did not vote stop bitching about the result

I am sure you a correct and the real figure would be lower, we all know apathy rules in the UK, otherwise every BMW owner who had an FPC / FD / EWS failure or spate of them would have been shouting so goddamn loud it would of been fixed by BMW who would have had no option and this poll would not be running.

Still think it shows relatively high failure rate, I bet others with failures have not posted either, so the poll, like all polls only tells you 1 in x people who can be arsed to vote voted this way.

Still if you do the same for blown motors the figure would be lower, I bet for FPC's it would be higher. This is obviously a very common problem.

Also it does not cover the extent or cost of repairs, mileage at which the failure occured, type of use etc. but other parts of the bike survive better and longer.

 

[GS TRV]

no but mine's an 1150

 

[Giles]

Ahhh Rasher I was fibbing , I had voted, (No) just didn't leave a comment. Good to see you bit though ....

 

[Wapping]

But it shows a pattern of regular failures, I bet if I ran a similar poll on the ZZR1400 site about replacing chains there would be less - and they're a cnsumable item, a shaft drive should not be!

Bet if you asked how many had thrown a rod / melted a piston / bent a valve the results would be very different.

This is (or was) a "sealed for life" unit, not something you would expect even 1 in 20 owners to have had fail.

Simple poll, simple result - it is a weakness in design and more than likely gonna cost every long term owner at some point.

It doesn't show any regular pattern at all. It simply shows:

(1) The number of UKGSers that have replied to the poll

(2) The number within that number who have had an explosion

(3) The number within that number who have not had an explosion

For all you know all of the people who have not replied have had no explosion but you have found all the exploded ones. Which, as BuMW have sold several thousand 1200's would bring the ratio not to your satisfactory 1:20 but to an incredibly satisfying 15:1,000's.

To compound the problem the word you chose 'explosion' can mean just about anything. Mine on my GSA has failed twice but the cause and end result of each were very different. For all you know, someone has voted yes when it was nothing more than the outer oil seal failing, the rest of the internal mechanicals being fine.

Then you get the statistical problem of factoring in no failures on one bike whilst in ownership but a failure on another. My first 1200 of the 05 vanilla variety clocked up 22,000 in 18 months with no problems. I could vote no. My second GSA (Adventure 06 variety) has had two rear drive problems, both repaired under either the OM warranty or under an extended warranty without too much drama in 53,000 miles. Do I vote yes, twice? What if I now sell the GSA to someone who has no problems, do they vote no? I might of course conclude that the vanilla bike is much better than the adventure, simply as one failed twice and the other didn't.

Rather like the calculation that you have owned 12 bikes over 20 years, clocking up 100,000 miles, meaning that:

(a) You have an annual average mileage of 5,000 per bike

(b) You keep each bike for 18 months

(c) Each bike therefore averages 7,500 miles whilst in your hands

(d) As the service interval on 1200's is definitely 6,000 miles or one year you will be seeing the dealer once for its 600 mile service and then just once again before you sell the bike on.

You can make limited information mean and read anything you like.

Of course it is annoying to some degree or another when a component fails on any vehicle. When there is regular and prolonged failures on the same vehicle for one owner that is increasingly frustrating, of course. That will happen simply down to bad luck and the law of large numbers. Where the tipping point is between random failures (or problems with) the final drive and a complete acceptance that each and every one WILL fail, you are no closer to knowing today than when you started looking a few weeks ago. From my limited experience I could well say, yes there will be a problem at 22,00 and 46,000 miles as these were near enough the mileages when my own drive problems manifested themselves. Others will say that that is bollocks.

====

Anyway that is all as maybe. For whatever reasons, your 1400 Kwacka is now up for sale. The money is burning a hole in your pocket rapidly (we can all relate to that feeling, I am sure) and a 1200 vanilla is now top of your shopping list, despite it being only just powerful and quick enough for you.

What made you decide finally on a 1200 over the Triumph Tiger or say, the new Ducatti Multistrada, or the new Yamaha 'adventure' bike?

 

[Rasher]

What made you decide finally on a 1200 over the Triumph Tiger or say, the new Ducatti Multistrada, or the new Yamaha 'adventure' bike?

I have no idea I would have said BMW reliability, but it seems the mechanics and electrics are hopeless, it cannot be performance because it is a slug compared to the 1400, handling - I don't think so.

Does anyone know why they bought one, all I know is I did not want to get of the damn thing, I would have happily rode it until the FD "Exploded"

Still think the FD is a bit crap, but maybe worth the risk because "I Like" the bike so much (it would appear)

The Tiger lacks pillion room and needs some mods, which through bitter experience I know are not reflected in resale value.

Shaft drive has attractions I have ignored for 20 years because Lawson / Rainey / Doohan / Rossi etc never had one, but finally realised as I am 30 seconds a lap of their pace I maybe do not need the worlds best chassis.

The slowness was a major factor, or at least the ability to be fun at pedestrian speeds, as was the joy of riding down backroads, not bounced down local lanes since I owned an FS1E.

Other bikes are similarly slow and capable of going down lanes, somehow I just don't want a Varedero, Transalp or any other BM immitation - not sure why, but I don't.

Tenere is just too big and heavy, KTM too of-roady and a bit pricier.

So the big question is Why Do I Want a GS???

Unfortunately not got any cash burning a hole in my pocket yet, but got buyers for all the bits leaving a stock bike I can sell cheap - so maybe soon I can go hunting

 

[Wapping]

I have no idea

As good and truthful a reason as any.

Take care

 

[Sgt Bilco]

but it seems the mechanics and electrics are hopeless,

So, we've ascertained that you think they are mechanically a pile of worthless shi*e so please enlighten us to why the electrics are hopeless

 

[Beemerman59]

I bought my GS ADV last year after a test ride of a K1300GT. I thought the GT was a great bike but didn't float my boat as it thought it would. I took a GS out almost as an after thought. After 5 minutes of riding the thing I was hooked and I'm still grining every time I ride the bike. For me, the GS reminded me about why I started riding 30+ years ago - it was fun! It was such a different riding experience from my then K1100RS and for me that was the selling point - it was such a different beast from what I was used to. The K1300GT was faster, more refined etc etc, but essentially gave me nothing extra from the RS. The GS is totally different and after a while you realise how unimportant bhp and top end speed is to the enjoyment of riding a superb all round machine.

I have had the odd paranoid moment worrying about EWS, FPC or FD's but if you spend your life worrying about things you won't do anything which is really boring. At some point, stop concerning yourself with what might happen and make a decision. Then forget worrying and enjoy the experience. Hope you enjoy the bike whichever it is and whenever you get it

 

[Rasher]

So, we've ascertained that you think they are mechanically a pile of worthless shi*e so please enlighten us to why the electrics are hopeless

EWS / FPC I seem to notice have had a lot of issues.

I have also been told by quite a few ex-BMW owners to avoid these bikes at all costs with electrical gremlins being the main reasoning.

I know many of you BMW stallwarts are sensitive souls (I think we used the term blinkered back in the 80's before political correctness was invented) and do not like people criticising your steeds, but fact is they have had some issues and far more so than BMW's of years gone by.

 

[Beemerman59]

EWS / FPC I seem to notice have had a lot of issues.

I have also been told by quite a few ex-BMW owners to avoid these bikes at all costs with electrical gremlins being the main reasoning.

I know many of you BMW stallwarts are sensitive souls (I think we used the term blinkered back in the 80's before political correctness was invented) and do not like people criticising your steeds, but fact is they have had some issues and far more so than BMW's of years gone by.

In the 70's I told myself I would never own a BMW - times change as do attitudes. I don't think I'm the sensitive type and I have my eye's firmly open when it comes to owning a GS. That's why I kept my K1100RS! In my opinion, you are giving yourself a lot of grief by worrying too much. Jump in with both feet and deal with it. You might be pleasantly surprised. Ask 10 questions on any forum and you will get 10 different answers. You have to make your own decision and be done with it.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Yep, they do have fairly obvious issues but I've never heard anyone say they have electrical gremlins. I'd love an example or two

The FPC and EWS were component failures rather than electrical.

I don't think too many people are completely blinkered, I'm certainly not, but I think the bike is blighted by heresay and gossip about the reliability. Sure, some have been bad and have had problems but the huge majority are running like sewing machines and you shouldn't be put off by the tittle tattle.

Nothing is as it used to be and that goes for every manufacturer. I'm sure if you go on any other bike forum you will get tales of woe and dispondency and you will also get the people who defend their choice of bike. It doesn't mean they are blinkered but they live in the real world.

 

[Rasher]

Ah, component failures, many may describe said components of the electrical variety and I assume this is to what they are referring, also by now I guess these teething problems are for the most part solved.

The bottom line is I am 90% certain of buying one

 

[Beemerman59]

Ah, component failures, many may describe said components of the electrical variety and I assume this is to what they are referring, also by now I guess these teething problems are for the most part solved.

The bottom line is I am 90% certain of buying one

I have no knowledge of any worth, but my impression is that the number of reported new FPC failures on this site has reduced considerably over the last 18 months I have been on this forum. Also, there is a known "good" EWS and my '08 GSA had it fitted before I bought the bike March last year.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

The bottom line is I am 90% certain of buying one

You won't regret it

 

[chad]

Other people have mentioned the chap before.

It is Jim Cray at Cray Engineering, I think he does a lot of tuning work as well, he is very familiar with boxers and the failings of the 1200 FD, he is not cheap, but probably no worse than a BMW dealer and I would guess as a "proper" engineer would do a damn fine job.

Main thing for me is it would not be getting rebuilt with the same crap components that failed in the first place.

cardif mottorad do a rebuild service 1200s, top work too

as for the 11XXs ye can fix them wi a big hammer in a field

 

[Wapping]

Ah, component failures, many may describe said components of the electrical variety and I assume this is to what they are referring,

You and sarge can both call them whatever you like. To me they are just bits that go together to make the bike work. It won't go far without its fuel pump controller working, that is for sure. Though it will go reasonably happily without it (see sticky). The EWS ring? Well if that is not working you are stuffed, so carry a spare and know how to fit it with the spare key on the roadside (see threads). Both are electrical components, but so are the spark plugs and just as much a part of the electrical system as the lights or the ignition switch.

Talking of electrical, lots of bods swear at (as opposed by swearing by) the OM battery but have never had either a final drive failure, or an EWS or fuel pump controller issue.... their bikes simply had no juice to start. Some have had all three problems and more. Others have thought they have had a problem but it turns out to be nothing of the sort, needless worry, reading too many threads and maybe a desire to join the 'pissed off' club being a major contributor perhaps? Who knows?

For sure lots of bods work increasingly convoluted ways to tell us that they are buying a new bike, so we can share their joy. And why not, as Barry Norman was apt to say.

The bottom line is I am 90% certain of buying one

What's the missing 10%? You are vacillating like a girl in a handbag shop.

 

[Rasher]

The last 10%, my Grandad will turn in his grave after his battles in the 40's, just for his grandson to buy a bike with an engine left over from the sidecar outfit that chased him down the goddamn beach at Dunkirk

Oh, and selling my bike, everyone wants me to give it away.

Then I need to find a tidy '08 as the '07s are not as powerful

And with bigger luggage than vario's, or so cheap i can spend another £1000 putting luggage on.

And all with my diminishing budget

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Then I need to find a tidy '08 as the '07s are not as powerful

Now then, it's going to get tricky again In there bid to appease the MCN rallying cry of "more power more power", they seem to have squeezed some horses out of the motor at the expense of low down torque so the earlier ones have a litt;e more grunt in the bottom of the rev range.....apparently.

I say "apparently:" because they all ride really well and I've never known much difference. I have a 56 plate with Keihan de catted headers and that has as much power as you need on a GSA and it pulls from nothing in any gear.

My advice would be to know your budget, then look round for the bike that fits regardless of age.

 

[Andy Davies]

..........but the huge majority are running like sewing machines and you shouldn't be put off by the tittle tattle.

Quite! I've just been on a trip to Easten Turkey with a group, a few of whom frequent this parish beerjug. 11 bikes, 10 BMWs comprising 7 1200s (3 GSAs 4 GSs), 1 1150GSA, 1 1200RT and 1 800GS (and a Yamaha TDM ). My total mileage for the trip was just shy of 8,600. There were no punctures and no mechanical failures of any description within the group even when riding in temperatures up to 46C.

With the total number of bike miles ridden, the failure cake (with this statistical evidence) is definitely over egged!

Andy

 

[Wapping]

The last 10%, my Grandad will turn in his grave after his battles in the 40's, just for his grandson to buy a bike with an engine left over from the sidecar outfit that chased him down the goddamn beach at Dunkirk

Oh, and selling my bike, everyone wants me to give it away.

Then I need to find a tidy '08 as the '07s are not as powerful

And with bigger luggage than vario's, or so cheap i can spend another £1000 putting luggage on.

And all with my diminishing budget

Unless you are a Japanese Buddhist who venerates the dead and the old, ignore his rotations.

Bling, whether it is Ohlins, cast iron disks, bar risers or whatever are worth doodlysquat when sold with a second hand bike. Many punters and dealers want clean, bog standard bikes, because that is what they can trust and recognise.

Return the 1400 to standard and accept what whatever the biggest mug will offer you, not what YOU think it is worth. It is coming into autumn, followed in most years by winter; demand, bikes sales and prices fall.... that is not news.

Sell the bling on ebay or via a Kwacka forum.

Better still, now you have gone to all the trouble of fitting replacement disks, shock absorbers and / or spending oodles of cash and time, sorting your 1400 into the bike Kawasaki SHOULD have made - had they not employed designers with wax crayons, monkey mechanics fitting parts from the lower tray of a Terry's All Gold chocolates box, overseen by over egged bean counters - keep it and enjoy it.

It has way more power and top speed than any GS. It can carry rider, pillion and all their luggage in great comfort across continents. Most of its components are reasonably reliable (Kwacka can at least build good engines) and you have already bought it.