Help and Advice Required - please ;-)

[harveyg77]

Hi all,

I have always had a fascination for the F650GS (single) so took my direct-access in January. After going self-emp, getting married, buying house, celebrating my 31st (three-one) etc. I've decided I now want a bike.

I like the idea/genre/mood that the R-GS's sets, but am 5'8". Then BM bought out the F650/800GS models. My heart says F800GS, but I am concerned by the 21" front wheel, the tubed tyres and its height (taller than R-GSs).

F650GS (twin) seems the sensible option, 19" wheel, tubeless and good seat height, but I always feel I am buying the poor mans (womans) GS and will forever be in the shadow of the 800/1200 and regretting it.

So quick question time:-

1. How important/dangerous/pain to repair is having tubed tyres over tubeless?

2. How 'dodgy' is a 21" skinny tyre compared to 19" fatter ones?

3. Is seat height just an outlet to vent nerves for novices?

Lastly, I have a friend selling a mint 2004 R1150GS for a good price and with lots of equipment/extras. These would cost approx £2k on top of a F650/800GS if I were to spec them to the same level. Am I being insane looking at an R1150GS as a completel novice for my first bike?

In anticipation of your repsonses - thank you,
Harvey

 

[notpc]

Leg length

On the leg length point, I'm 5 foot 9, and have been using my 1200GS with the seat in the lowest position for fifteen months. Coming to the BMW from a Suzuki Bandit, it was the height that was most intimidating (I think the weight must have been pretty much the same). The dealer set the seat at the lower setting, which let me have both feet flat on the ground but I found my knees get stiff after much more than 100 miles at a stretch.

Last weekend, I thought I'd try it on the higher setting. Now I can only get my toes down, but riding feels a fair bit more comfortable with my legs just a bit straighter. Early days yet, but at least I have no plans to change back. Of course, after 10,000 miles, I have a much better feel for the balance.

Come trade-in time, I shall certainly look at a GSA feeling much less intimidated, although I had a very good day out recently on a 1200RT. Now I know why the moto cops look as if they couldn't fall off if you pushed them - that's just how you feel on that bike!

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Hi and welcome to the site

To answer your questions:

1. How important/dangerous/pain to repair is having tubed tyres over tubeless?

Few peeps these days repair their own punctures so if you won't be either then it's not really an issue.
Tubless tyres can usually be repaired (at least to get you home) by a plug with the wheel left in situ where as you need to get the wheel / tyre off and remove the tube on a tubed tyre.
With certain provisos, both repairs can be considered as permanant.


2. How 'dodgy' is a 21" skinny tyre compared to 19" fatter ones?

Not dodgy at all.

Your choice of offroad rubber is increased with a 21" wheel and your choice of pure road rubber decreased.
In theory the smaller a front wheel is the quicker a bike will steer. 21" fronts can sometimes be a bit vague up front and have a tendency to 'push' the front in bends. In the real world this is not an issue and on such a well sorted bike as the GS I'd be surprised if you ever noticed this.

3. Is seat height just an outlet to vent nerves for novices?

Yes and no. It's mostly a confidence thang.

Lastly, I have a friend selling a mint 2004 R1150GS for a good price and with lots of equipment/extras. These would cost approx £2k on top of a F650/800GS if I were to spec them to the same level. Am I being insane looking at an R1150GS as a completel novice for my first bike?

You're not being insane but, even so I think I'd still be tempted by the smaller GS's - they will do everything that the 1150 will do except possibly full on, two up, fully loaded trans Europe mile munching. They will be easier to ride on road and definitly off road, should you venture there, and will be great at building that confidence need to enjoy riding a bike.

Good luck!

Andres

 

[Loiq]

hello.

bit of a funny set of questions and the answers could all be conflicting, you need to go a find the bike you want then sit on it and see how you get on. I like the look of the 800 but own an 1150 and can't afford to change so my mind is made up on that side.

I ride my 1150 set on the mid position, I'm just scratching 5'8" and my legs are so short they just about reach the gound so it's more a matter of practice and getting on with the problems in hand.

you don't need to fix punctures till they happen, all I can say while your digging about with tyre levers it's easy to make more holes into inner tubes. Don't ask me how I know. tubless are I think easier to hash up a fix atleast to get down the road, so someone else can have a better go at it.

big tyres little tyres.... well as long as you can keep the tyre of the road and yourself on the bike i don't think it matters much.

there that's about it best of luck in finding the right bike and be careful

 

[Norm]

It is important to consider how \ what you are going to want to use the bike for. i.e. Commuting, off road\green laning, touring etc. and to what extent each of the aforementioned.

Learning\ improving on either bike will provide you with completely different learning curves. I have had both (started with 800st & now 1200GS) and wish I had started with the heavier, bigger engined GS.

Feed back your thoughts and I am sure you will get other good advice.

Definately try and ride them both and see for yourself.

 

[harveyg77]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies, I had typed a long reply and then shut down the window and lost the lot with a miss-keyed shortcut.

On M'ways I am 'aware' of other bikes coming in the opposite direction (otherside the barrier obviously ;-) ) but I always 'SEE' the R-GSs, which seems to imply, atleast to me, that they have much more presence on the road and I percieve that this will inherantly reduce my risk (slightly) of being skittled by a non-observant car/lorry/bus.

Anyway, bike will be used for commuting 8 miles a day in Derby. Rides out for a few hours/a day at the weekend. But I do not wish to preclude carrying a pillion or luggage i.e. Mrs to Wales for a wkend. I used to 'green lane' in 4x4s so would possibly do the simple stuff in the Peaks again.

I knew of a mates 1150GS for sale and considered it was not what I was initially after, but may have been the sort of thing I gravitated to after say a F650GS.

Thanks,
Harvey

 

[harveyg77]

lastly, do you actually have to use Super-Unleaded? 800/1200GS quote 95 ron, but 650 uses 91 ron (nromal unleaded).

Thanks,
Harvey

 

[John Armstrong]

If you're commuting I'd say a boxer engine isn't the easiest, I'm now using a 650 twin after a 650 single Dakar. The 650 twin is much less nervous going over road markings / white lines etc and I'd put this down to it's smaller front wheel. Both my 1200 GSA and 650 single had tourances and the GSA was never as twitchy.

A lot depends on your size if you're "cuddly" the 1150 might be a better option as you won't look like you've been stuck on top of a bike. I'd recommend trying to get test rides from BM dealers for you to try the 650 twin / single 800GS and 1150 to see which you like best / works best for you.

Saying that, from what I've seen and read, most people after a few months thing they got too small / low powered bike and hanker after something bigger / more powerfull. But if as an example you got a 1150 GSA as your first bike, and get scared riding it due to it's weight / power etc then getting it wan't the right idea.

No easy answers

Can use ordinary unleaded although the power output will probably be less than the brochure quotes.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Saying that, from what I've seen and read, most people after a few months thing they got too small / low powered bike and hanker after something bigger / more powerfull. But if as an example you got a 1150 GSA as your first bike you'd soon be wanting the extra power, handling and refinement of a 1200
.

Fixed

 

[John Armstrong]

Fixed

I was trying to couch my reply interms of the bikes he's seen

He'll be after an airhead though, after a few years!

 

[harveyg77]

Yes, you are right - a road test is the only way really. My concern was that I could have liked the 650 and 800, not understood the implications of the differences and then bought the 'wrong one'.

Realistically I won't go for the single. It would be one of the twins or my mates 1150GS. Don't see myself getting a 1200 as I am not so keen on them (no offense to anyone).

Looks like I will have to knock up a spreadsheet and start my analysis ;-)

Performance wise I suspect the 800 is going to be 'sharper' than the 1150 as its got the same power but is smaller/lighter. So I guess the 650 will be more on par with the 1150 for performance - without quite the same low down torque. The 1150 did really suprise me with its grunt from low rev's.

Thanks,
Harvey

 

[conncarr]

Sorry you don't like the 1200. I went through a similar process to you and decided on the 1200, mainly for the weight (1150 with a full tank is harder to get of the sidestand), and the seat height (I'm 5'6").

Love the bike, and it does all I want it to.

Having said that, I think it could be a handful as a first bike and would be tempted to go with something physically smaller for the first few thousand miles.

Good luck with what ever you go with.

Brian

 

[Mort]

5'9" 1100GS with the seat on the high position (more legroom)....

Just buy the one you want then overcome any problems....easy init

 

[G.C.]

I always 'SEE' the R-GSs, which seems to imply, atleast to me, that they have much more presence on the road and I percieve that this will inherantly reduce my risk.
I knew of a mates 1150GS for sale and considered it was not what I was initially after, but may have been the sort of thing I gravitated to after say a F650GS.

Thanks,
Harvey

I came from 2 x 650`s, Funduro then twin spark (04) to my 1150 GSA.
Asking about road presence and being seen, it’s a no brainer. The GSA has a strong presence, folk see me now. Do I miss the 650`s? hell yea. Great bikes, you think that you have found there limit and then quickly realise that its just “your limit” that you have found. Particularly with the off road bits, and I really miss that. Not saying that the GSA aint capable of the same, its just that at 5 “11” I aint big enough or competent enough to achieve the same. Great bike for road/tour and trail though
1st bike, get the 650. Ride it for a year and learn.

The bastids are all out to get you!

 

[harveyg77]

Been to look at the F800GS. I've not got a years riding experience, so insurance will be a issue for test drive (but we've got a 'work round').

Anyway sat on the 800GS with standard seat, struggled to get off side stand (but I had got both feet touching). Anyway, once 'up' could just get toes on floor (in shirt/tie and office shoes). Back on side stand and 2nd time got it up much better with one foot firmly planted. Once up quite easy with right foot on peg/brake and just using left foot. on floor. If I 'utched' my ass over slight to one side I was fine on the floor.

Only 650GS available was a lowered suspension and low seat model, so left it at that. Going to arrange a test ride on the 800GS and they will have both the standard and lower seats available for a back to back comparison.

Only annoyance with the 650/800GS is a lot of the things which should be standard are options. Centre stand, abs, (large) hand guards, heated grips, computer (no fuel gauge without it), brings it to £7.7k which is suddenly quite a lot of cash for a bike!

Harvey

 

[Ropey]

Back on side stand and 2nd time got it up much better with one foot firmly planted. Once up quite easy with right foot on peg/brake and just using left foot. on floor.
Harvey

Theres a joke in there somewhere

I'm 5'8" and started riding almost 2yrs ago now, I started on 250cc cruiser and quickly went to 650GS single... I love the 650 and whilst I'm planning to upgrade to the 12 I keep find myself asking why!!

From my POV I'd start smaller than 1150... the amout I,ve learnt on the 250 and 650 have been invaluable... I'd have hated to try an learn those lessons on a big bike!!

In my ideal world then, I would have gone straight to a 12 but firmly believe I got good advise to start small/slow and learn well and not get frightened away from bikes...

go well,
Czr

 

[harveyg77]

Yes, was touch and go as to how I phrased certain aspects of my experience tonight ;-)

Anyway, I will have to see how the money goes and work. Then decide which route. I've got a weekends test ride with the R1150GS. If I feel fine and safe I will probably go down that route. Otherwise its the 650/800GS route.

I must say that the 800GS is very similar in length and height to the R1200GS when they're side by side, just slimmer low down due to the lack of cylinders hanging out ;-)

What's this I hear about the next generation dropping the R because it won't meet upcoming emissions and going over to a 1200 version of the F?

Harvey