Help with diagnosis of fault. Please!

[Steve Smales]

Hi there,
I wonder if anyone can help me - I'll try to keep it brief.
2005 R1200GS, 17000 miles, mine from new.

I have had the bike on an optomiser over winter and have been into the garage every few weeks and started it up, warmed it through with no problems whatsoever.

I've just gone to take the bike out and it won't start. On the face of it, it's as if it's really flat with no headlamp, no abs power up and just a light clicking when the starter button's pressed.

I have put a test meter on the battery and it shows as flat BUT when I disconnect the battery leads, it shows as 13volts.

I have tried jump leads direct to my car's battery (without the bike battery connected and nothing. There is no burning smell or massive sparks when I connect up the jump leads - I'd expect that if there was a big short on the bike.

So I'm really puzzled and have run out of ideas.

Can anyone help please.
Steve

 

[looney]

Hi Steve,

from your descriptions I would think you have a dead cell. If you connect your car battery - can you start the bike?
If so this would definitely suggest you need a new battery for your bike I'm afraid.

On the plus side it all happened in your garage. I experienced this very issue on the way home from a trip to Scotland last year, in the middle of France. Towing truck to the nearest BMW dealer, some 100km ... at least all was covered under warranty.

Cheers
Stefan

 

[Steve Smales]

Thanks, but no, it won't start. Absolutely no different.

 

[Big Nick]

I still suspect the battery and I would definately try hooking up a new one

Failing that sounds like a fault with the ignition circuit

 

[cookie]

I still suspect the battery and I would definately try hooking up a new one

Failing that sounds like a fault with the ignition circuit

he's jumped it which amounts to much the same thing. i take it that didn't work?

bad earth from battery to frame?

 

[Pukmeister]

If you have 13 volts DC across the terminals of a 12 volt battery, all cells are in circuit: There are 6 cells in series within the battery at about 2 volts per cell. The battery sounds OK.

Cookie must be on the right lines. You either have no volts getting from the battery main +ve lead to the bike, or no volts getting back from the frame of the bike to the battery -ve eg an open circuit somewhere on the bike either through a broken/burnt out wire, faulty switch contacts or loose connection etc. This is why even the strength of a 12V car battery connected across the bikes terminals doesn't make a difference.

 

[Steve Smales]

thanks for your responses so far.

What I cannot understand is how the test meter shows 13v on the battery terminals yet as soon as I connect the battery leads there is 0v at the battery terminals.

I wondered if there was a short on the loom of the bike but there is no spark/or burning smell etc once the battery leads are connected, it's just the voltage goes. I also note that the car doesn't 'go under load' when the jump leads are connected.

Any suggestions?

Help!

 

[JJH]

I would try the earth from the battery to the frame JJH

 

[looney]

What I cannot understand is how the test meter shows 13v on the battery terminals yet as soon as I connect the battery leads there is 0v at the battery terminals.

This is exactly what led me to believe that there is a bad cell in your battery - it still has nominal voltage under no-load conditions, but as soon as you draw some current it will fail completely.

I wondered if there was a short on the loom of the bike but there is no spark/or burning smell etc once the battery leads are connected, it's just the voltage goes. I also note that the car doesn't 'go under load' when the jump leads are connected.

Using your car battery, does the voltage drop on connection to the bike as well? If yes - short circuit.

Still using your car battery hooked up to your bike - what voltage do you measure directly at the starter connectors (you need to remove that plastic thingy to get access)?
* On the bolt-on wire you should see battery voltage under all conditions. If not - faulty wiring from battery to starter.
* on the spade connector there should be battery voltage with the starter button pressed - if not, wiring to the starter relay, the relay itself, the wiring to the BMS-K or the BMS-K itself may be damaged.

You may want to have a look at the wiring diagrams at http://r1200gs.info/R1200GS-WD2.pdf to further pin-point the failure.

Good luck
Stefan

 

[jailon]

thanks for your responses so far.

What I cannot understand is how the test meter shows 13v on the battery terminals yet as soon as I connect the battery leads there is 0v at the battery terminals.

I wondered if there was a short on the loom of the bike but there is no spark/or burning smell etc once the battery leads are connected, it's just the voltage goes. I also note that the car doesn't 'go under load' when the jump leads are connected.

Any suggestions?

Help!

you need to check the amps running through it, as it may be 12volts with nothing connected, but may be running at 0.5 amp so when you switch ignition on which takes more amps the voltage dissapears. What are using to test it, if its a cheap multimeter then just borrow another one to make sure. Nearly all car / bike cells are at 2 volts (as mentioned earlier) so cant understand where you would get the extra 1 volt from???

Put out a begging question to fellow tossers in harrogate to just nip over and "borrow" their battery to test. Its cheaper than buying a new battery.....

All in all, i agree with the rest. It sounds like a duff earth / corroded connection (disconnect the aux power socket in case its got damp in it and draining the Batt)

 

[PhilBolton]

From your description of your attempt to jump it from the car battery, I think you didn't have the bike battery connected - Is that so?

Suggest you jump from the car battery with the bike battery connected also, this will show if it is the battery or a bad connection somewhere.
If it starts with both batteries then your bike battery is duff -
If it doesn't then look for a bad connection.

When you try to start the bike from the car battery, have the car engine running, preferably at a fast idle.

good luck

Phil

 

[Pukmeister]

You could have a major short circuit on the bike, dragging the battery voltage to zero. If so this is potentially dangerous as it will cause heat and a risk of fire. Chances are that the battery has the correct open-circuit voltage but has no capacity left in it, eg almost spent and needs a recharge. Most fully charged lead-acid batteries show about 13.5 volts to 14.5 volts open-circuit across the terminals, dropping to around 11 volts under load.

As already stated, you need an ammeter in series with the positive wire to the battery. It will then show how many Amps are being drawn by the bike when the ignition circuit is enabled. It should only draw a few Amps until you press the starter button, if it draws more then something is wrong. You may also need to use a shunt to prevent drawing excessive amps through the ammeter. If it draws no amps, there is probably a break in the wiring somewhere.

I would be tempted to look at the starter relay under the seat for sticking and corrosion, they are prone to failure. Also pull the cover off the starter motor and inspect the terminals for looseness or corrosion.

Sorry but its difficult to fault find or diagnose without actually seeing the bike.

 

[alimey4u2]

I'm of the same opinion as the "bad battery" crowd. Although you have attempted to start the bike using jumper cables from a car battery, without the bike battery in circuit. It's quite difficult to get a good connection from the croc/alligator clips connected to the bike battery cables... If there was a dead short on the bike, you would get a big sparky upon connecting... I would agree with the others ( who covered it well) that it's diifficult to diagnose over the web...

 

[the shepard]

your starter motor could be stuck in mesh with the flywheel due to trying to start with weak battery .put it in gear and rock bike back and forth then connect your battery and jump leads. do you get a heavy spark when leads connected ?battery voltage reading sounds like surface voltage but amps very low just because you get 13 volts when connected does not mean battery is ok you need to leave meter and jump leads connected thenvoltage .good luck try starting and check

 

[the shepard]

oops got a bit distracted .should read. jump leads connected then try starting but think it is battery problem.good luck

 

[mrsroynie]

Steve, when you say the bike doesn't start, does it do anything at all? Any noises?

I only ask because I have an 05 bike, and what I took to be a duff battery turned out to be a fuel pump controller failure. The symptoms are quite similar. Turn the key, get a few clicking noises. Press the starter and get an asthmatic wheeze ... nothing else - until eventually the bike stops trying entirely, then you get absolutely zilch - not even a display!

 

[JJH]

you need to check the amps running through it, as it may be 12volts with nothing connected, but may be running at 0.5 amp so when you switch ignition on which takes more amps the voltage dissapears. What are using to test it, if its a cheap multimeter then just borrow another one to make sure. Nearly all car / bike cells are at 2 volts (as mentioned earlier) so cant understand where you would get the extra 1 volt from???

Put out a begging question to fellow tossers in harrogate to just nip over and "borrow" their battery to test. Its cheaper than buying a new battery.....

All in all, i agree with the rest. It sounds like a duff earth / corroded connection (disconnect the aux power socket in case its got damp in it and draining the Batt)

a fully charged cell gives an inital 2.2 volts so a fully charged 12 volt battery should read 13.2 volts on a good volt meetre JJH

 

[GSmonkey]

Where are you putting the test probes?? 0v is not likely. Especially as connecting the car battery didn't blow anything.

 

[Steve Smales]

Hello, latest update -

After a further frustrating session, I've discovered that for whatever reason, there is 13.2v now even when the battery is connected.

The symptoms are that when I turn the ignition on, there is not the usual high pitched motor sound (not sure if it's fuel pump or ABS priming). Then when I press the start button, there is very light clicking sound, but certainly no attempt by the starter motor to start the engine.

The servo'd brakes dont spring into life either.

I cannot remember if it should, but the headlamp is not coming on either.

I have double checked the side stand switch, kill switch and all the obvious connections.

 

[alimey4u2]

If you haven't tried this already, put a multimeter across the battery terminals & then attempt to start the bike. What does the voltage drop to ?
Headlamp doesn't come on until the engine is running...