Droopy Dick
Registered user
Lou Can said:
How odd.
Many cars for which HIDs are standard do NOT come with all the above.
I strongly suspect this is a load of tosh.
HID lamps £99.00 for 1150
- Thread starter pomm001
- Start date
How odd.
Many cars for which HIDs are standard do NOT come with all the above.
I strongly suspect this is a load of tosh.
Gonzo
Registered user
Droopy Dick said:
Lou is technically correct. All cars delivered with factory fit FULL HID lights do have the auto adjustment and washers. Look at the full factory spec for cars listing HID/Xenon/gas discharge lights and they will include the other items too. HID lights were an option on my Audi, and they were bundled with auto-adjust and washers. The washers are useless, mind, but at least they're fitted.
Many cars have the eye-ball projector style lights which some mistake for HIDs - but they're normally not, although can look like it with a set of blue bulbs.
However, if you were to be pulled you'd be unlikely to be prosecuted for lacking them unless there are a few other things that have come to the ocifer's attention.
pomm001
Registered user
Droopy Dick said:
I must admit i am finding difficulty in the logic that HID if fitted to dip has to have both wipe and auto adjustment
I asked KTMmark this question in the technical forum, he seems to think it doesnt have t have the above, he is an MOT tester.
Agree most new cars do bundle with wash wipe, but then headlamp wash is standard for Germany ?
Not all HID standard fit lamps have self levelling, or auto adjusters.
My interpretation of the regulations are that the pattern of the lamp must conform to the Uk rules ie dip to left and pass the beam check alignment on the machine ?
Gonzo
Registered user
These aren't the rule book itself, but tend to concur with what I've been told in the past:
Source 1
Also have seen this alleged quote from the DoT, although I'll admit to having no evidence chain and I can't find an official site with this on. Don't get me wrong - if there was confidence that a HID kit would work on the 12, I'd give a go but...........
"Dear Sir,
The situation for Gas Discharge (HID High Intensity Discharge) (commonly known as Xenon) headlamps is complex.
I attach links to the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 which regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However you will be well aware that new vehicles have Xenon headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the Xenon headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the aftermarket, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "Xenon is banned in the aftermarket" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require Xenon in the aftermarket to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a Xenon headlamp sold in the aftermarket should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3, Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
We are aware of kit available in the aftermarket where a Xenon "burner" or bulb is fitted inside a headlamp designed for use with conventional Halogen filament bulbs. The burner is fitted with a "bayonet" type fitting so it fits where the Halogen bulb should fit. This is not legal and the vendor, the person who mounts it on the vehicle and the person who drives the vehicle are all committing an offence. (Which also means that he is invalidating the insurance.)
The reason for this is that headlamps and bulbs are made to tight tolerances and the wrong type of bulb will cause an incorrect beam pattern to be emitted, which could cause dazzle and discomfort to other drivers. "
Source 1
Also have seen this alleged quote from the DoT, although I'll admit to having no evidence chain and I can't find an official site with this on. Don't get me wrong - if there was confidence that a HID kit would work on the 12, I'd give a go but...........
"Dear Sir,
The situation for Gas Discharge (HID High Intensity Discharge) (commonly known as Xenon) headlamps is complex.
I attach links to the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 which regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However you will be well aware that new vehicles have Xenon headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the Xenon headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the aftermarket, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "Xenon is banned in the aftermarket" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require Xenon in the aftermarket to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a Xenon headlamp sold in the aftermarket should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3, Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
We are aware of kit available in the aftermarket where a Xenon "burner" or bulb is fitted inside a headlamp designed for use with conventional Halogen filament bulbs. The burner is fitted with a "bayonet" type fitting so it fits where the Halogen bulb should fit. This is not legal and the vendor, the person who mounts it on the vehicle and the person who drives the vehicle are all committing an offence. (Which also means that he is invalidating the insurance.)
The reason for this is that headlamps and bulbs are made to tight tolerances and the wrong type of bulb will cause an incorrect beam pattern to be emitted, which could cause dazzle and discomfort to other drivers. "
I fitted one of these HID kits to a customers bike today - I mounted the ballast above the alternator, on the frame tubes each side. The wiring/main cablefeed is long enough to reach the bulb.
Tip for getting the 22mm hole in the bulb cover, don't drill it. Heat up a piece of 22mm copper plumbing tube, and push it through the cover .
Tip for getting the 22mm hole in the bulb cover, don't drill it. Heat up a piece of 22mm copper plumbing tube, and push it through the cover .
coxm
Guest
That'll be my bike, and the difference is amazing. The kit is fitted on the dip beam and whilst it aren't as good as the main beam on my Fireblade, they are no longer in the "dangerous" category.
I'd recommend to anyone having this done before fitting a pile of auxiliary lights, since it may be enough for you. I'm going to do that anyway, since I like lots of bright lights. I'm waiting for a set of the brackets which replace the spacers for the indicators from adventurersworkshop.com, on which a pair of PIAA lights will go as well, then its back to Steptoe to have them fitted too.
MC
I'd recommend to anyone having this done before fitting a pile of auxiliary lights, since it may be enough for you. I'm going to do that anyway, since I like lots of bright lights. I'm waiting for a set of the brackets which replace the spacers for the indicators from adventurersworkshop.com, on which a pair of PIAA lights will go as well, then its back to Steptoe to have them fitted too.
MC
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