Hilltop Group Buy

[Engineer]

If you have a trawl through Engineer's posts for months now, and the number of times he has been advised by many (including Geoff at Hilltop) - to call Hilltop .............. you realise he is nothing more than a troll with an agenda. Whenever someone challenges him on it - he plays the wounded soul, to gain support from the gormless.


Al

did you finally understand my explanation about the two clutch switches? You don't like being wrong do you? Not a good idea to start a personal vendetta without the necessary skill, knowledge or intelligence is it?

 

[Blackal]

did you finally understand my explanation about the two clutch switches? You don't like being wrong do you? Not a good idea to start a personal vendetta without the necessary skill, knowledge or intelligence is it?

Not really - no.

Someone explained that there were two switches within the clutch lever which you appear to have latched on to with a kind of "self-congratulation", but as to how this "produced more power" - is still an unexplained mystery, to be honest. I did ask you to explain how this "power" was manifested, but you didn't appear capable.

....ridden your WC very slowly on a level surface at tickover revs slipping the clutch over its full range? If so have you noticed the way the engine develops more power as the clutch lever is released to its full engaged position and how the engine power is reduced when the clutch if fully disengaged?

Hmmmmm, not difficult with electronic control over the throttle and fuel injection is it? if you know the clutch position and feed that information to the engine management systen then one can easily control the throttle independent of the user (open the throttle a bit, more power) - that's what a fly by wire throttle can do, the engine management system can take over control from the rider.

You mention "power" but as I suspected from the beginning, and others also appear to realise - You were in fact talking about an increase/decrease in revs, rather than "Power". You can produce power to meet load, but you cannot merely create "power" through increasing/decreasing revs- the load must be present.

Of course, when you pull on the clutch-lever - the engine power drops. This is a natural function of the loss of drive on any vehicle due to the load reducing (to drive train and pumping losses mostly).

But - since I didn't realise that the clutch lever included two microswitches - I remain open to persuasion that these switches reduce/increase engine power.

You're correct - I prefer to be right, than to be wrong, but as far as technical reasoning (and "knowledge and intelligence") go - I've done reasonably-well over life.

Now - about your long-standing apparent "vendetta" against Hilltop Motorcycles.............................

Isn't it time you phoned Geoff for the answers you seek? I'm pretty sure he is extremely knowledgeable on all things Fuel Injection, Mapping, Power Commanders etc.

(or just continue your mindless vendetta)

Al

 

[Engineer]

Interesting that the Re-Mapping thread in the pub, which was actually developing into a vaguely interesting discussion about fuelung and how it's controlled got closed by the OP, but only after he made one final thinly veiled dig at Hilltop.

Some people are just never happy.

Andres

I didn't close it! I was surprised to see thatt was closed, it was actually the most informative to date on the subject, how does one get a thread re-opened?

 

[Engineer]

Not really - no.

Someone explained that there were two switches within the clutch lever which you appear to have latched on to with a kind of "self-congratulation", but as to how this "produced more power" - is still an unexplained mystery, to be honest. I did ask you to explain how this "power" was manifested, but you didn't appear capable.





You mention "power" but as I suspected from the beginning, and others also appear to realise - You were in fact talking about an increase/decrease in revs, rather than "Power". You can produce power to meet load, but you cannot merely create "power" through increasing/decreasing revs- the load must be present.

Of course, when you pull on the clutch-lever - the engine power drops. This is a natural function of the loss of drive on any vehicle due to the load reducing (to drive train and pumping losses mostly).

But - since I didn't realise that the clutch lever included two microswitches - I remain open to persuasion that these switches reduce/increase engine power.

You're correct - I prefer to be right, than to be wrong, but as far as technical reasoning (and "knowledge and intelligence") go - I've done reasonably-well over life.

Now - about your long-standing apparent "vendetta" against Hilltop Motorcycles.............................

Isn't it time you phoned Geoff for the answers you seek? I'm pretty sure he is extremely knowledgeable on all things Fuel Injection, Mapping, Power Commanders etc.

(or just continue your mindless vendetta)

Al

You seem to misinterpret almost everything that I say, which is a pity because it gets in the way of increasing understanding.

Back to the switches there are two switches, if you pull the clutch lever gently with the engine off you can hear them click - one operates just as the lever is first moved from its rest position and the other when the lever is close to the bars. If you ride along at tickover with the throttle closed on level ground and pull the clutch in and out there are two very distinct step changes in revs at exactly the switch points - the switches are feeding signals to the engine management unit telling it to increase/decrease the amount of power that the engine produces. There has been a recent firmware update to how these switches operate, apparently to avoid the random infrequent engine cut out when changing down at low speed.

 

[King Key]

how does one get a thread re-opened?

I expect if one asked a Moderator they may be able to oblige.

 

[RedRick Esq.]

I expect if one asked a Moderator they may be able to oblige.

It would be interesting to know who did close the thread ( i thought only the OP or a Mod could do it) and why

 

[Engineer]

It would be interesting to know who did close the thread ( i thought only the OP or a Mod could do it) and why

Can I tell if I closed it accidentally?, it is possible I had finger trouble on my iPad??????

 

[Deleted account 200123001]

Can I tell if I closed it accidentally?, it is possible I had finger trouble on my iPad??????

FFS please stop playing the idiot. You know full well how to close a thread.

 

[Blackal]

You seem to misinterpret almost everything that I say, which is a pity because it gets in the way of increasing understanding.

Back to the switches there are two switches, if you pull the clutch lever gently with the engine off you can hear them click - one operates just as the lever is first moved from its rest position and the other when the lever is close to the bars. If you ride along at tickover with the throttle closed on level ground and pull the clutch in and out there are two very distinct step changes in revs at exactly the switch points - the switches are feeding signals to the engine management unit telling it to increase/decrease the amount of power that the engine produces. There has been a recent firmware update to how these switches operate, apparently to avoid the random infrequent engine cut out when changing down at low speed.

In my defense - I don't think you understand this concept of "power".

On all my bikes (which have very simple clutch arrangements) and the millions of others out there - If I pull in the clutch lever - the engine has no option but to produce less power......... for the very simple reason that the load has all but disappeared.

So on the new bikes (with clutch switches) which I accept at face value - ensure that the revs remain high enough to prevent cutting out on low speed downshifts - this is purely an input to the management system to increase the REVS.

Power is not increased or decreased, because that is entirely load-dependent (that same load which has all but disappeared due to the clutch being pulled).

I am sorry, but if you cannot grasp that concept, or you realise what a fundamental error you made - but don't want to admit it................... then fine - continue on with your quest for "understanding", but I give up with you, because years of working offshore have taught me:

"You cannot educate pork"

However - perhaps Hilltop can............. just give Geoff the opportunity to try. If you obstinately refuse that easy avenue, then quite simply - your continued posturing on this site, does you no favours.

Al

 

[Deleted account 200502001]

Thread now closed.

Can everyone please now fuck off.

 

[cookie]

Thread now closed.

Can everyone please now fuck off.

nope

 

[younger06]

Be Jaysus........ this is great craic.

 

[Deleted account 200123001]

In my defense - I don't think you understand this concept of "power".

On all my bikes (which have very simple clutch arrangements) and the millions of others out there - If I pull in the clutch lever - the engine has no option but to produce less power......... for the very simple reason that the load has all but disappeared.

I agree with you Al, the basic premise of power is either work done over time or energy flow.
There has to be work done or somewhere for the energy to flow to for there to be power.

For what ever reason he's playing stupid...he knows this stuff (if he really is an engineer)... All seems rather childish to me.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I didn't close it! I was surprised to see thatt was closed, it was actually the most informative to date on the subject, how does one get a thread re-opened?

I don't believe you, I don't believe you, la la la, la la la ............

Andres

 

[Wapping]

I didn't close it! I was surprised to see thatt was closed, it was actually the most informative to date on the subject, how does one get a thread re-opened?

You're an engineer, see it as an engineering problem requiring an educated guess.

A simple PM to the moderator or the site's owner might well do it, perhaps. Give it a go. It's free and they can't touch you for it.

Whilst at it, you might be able to enquire by whom and / or why the thread was closed.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

You're an engineer, see it as an engineering problem requiring an educated guess.

A simple PM to the moderator or the site's owner might well do it, perhaps. Give it a go. It's free and they can't touch you for it.

Whilst at it, you might be able to enquire by whom and / or why the thread was closed.

That'd be very similar to contacting Geoff at Hilltop in order to have ones questions answered.

Pigs might fly...............

Andres

 

[Beemerman59]

Can I tell if I closed it accidentally?, it is possible I had finger trouble on my iPad??????

Why don't you do what any self respecting software engineer would do ..... having turned it off, just turn it back on again. Tried clicking the button?

 

[Engineer]

FFS please stop playing the idiot. You know full well how to close a thread.

DOH - Of course I know how to close a thread, The question was, can I tell after the event who closed the thread, FFS it's like trying to educate pork on this forum at times!!!!!!! Just remember there is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid answers!

 

[Engineer]

In my defense - I don't think you understand this concept of "power".

On all my bikes (which have very simple clutch arrangements) and the millions of others out there - If I pull in the clutch lever - the engine has no option but to produce less power......... for the very simple reason that the load has all but disappeared.

So on the new bikes (with clutch switches) which I accept at face value - ensure that the revs remain high enough to prevent cutting out on low speed downshifts - this is purely an input to the management system to increase the REVS.

Power is not increased or decreased, because that is entirely load-dependent (that same load which has all but disappeared due to the clutch being pulled).

I am sorry, but if you cannot grasp that concept, or you realise what a fundamental error you made - but don't want to admit it................... then fine - continue on with your quest for "understanding", but I give up with you, because years of working offshore have taught me:

"You cannot educate pork"

However - perhaps Hilltop can............. just give Geoff the opportunity to try. If you obstinately refuse that easy avenue, then quite simply - your continued posturing on this site, does you no favours.

Al

Power is the rate of work, burn more fuel in a given time = more power, ome way is to spin he engine faster or put in more fuel per cycle.

You can always ignore my posts instead of repeatedly arguing with me -simples

 

[Deleted account 200123001]

Actually there were two questions..but I won't hold that against you. Just remember...pot calling the kettle.