Hilltop Motorcycles fact or fiction

[Roger 04 RT]

This thread is now up to page 5 with 79 replies but there isn't a bit of information on what gets changed by the Hilltop remap. Doesn't that suggest that the answer to the question is: fiction?

Since Hilltop seems to keep the "secret sauce" secret, why doesn't one of the owners of a remap attach an Innovate LM-2, take a few test rides and log the results, example below. Then we'll all have an answer to: fact or fiction?

Chart below of an R1200GS Camhead with fueling modified to 6% rich with dual Innovate Motorsports LC-1s.

 

[Nutty]

.........and this has been done, as I mentioned in another thread.

It's up in the 'Orange' section. Giles had his 1190 run up on an independent dyno after having a re-map at Hilltop.

The figures were pretty much identical and IIRC the independent dyno guy commented on just how well the mapping had been set up.

Andres

Toddmeister also took his Hilltopped LC to an independent Dyno, and the figures were the same, give or take a couple of bhp.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

This thread is now up to page 5 with 79 replies but there isn't a bit of information on what gets changed by the Hilltop remap. Doesn't that suggest that the answer to the question is: fiction?

Since Hilltop seems to keep the "secret sauce" secret, why doesn't one of the owners of a remap attach an Innovate LM-2, take a few test rides and log the results, example below. Then we'll all have an answer to: fact or fiction?

Chart below of an R1200GS Camhead with fueling modified to 6% rich with dual Innovate Motorsports LC-1s.

I think the answer is, one guy on here who's dyno guy has told him Hilltop are pulling a fast one versus countless guys on here that are more than happy with what Hilltop have achieved. I have yet to read a thread on here where somebody has come away from Hilltop unhappy.

Now that, itself, points to where the fact is and where the fiction is.



Now.........we also have peeps that have had independent verification of what Hilltop have achieved. Will that shut up the doubters? No, of course not. The doubters know what they know and nothing will change their point of view ('tis human nature after all, we are all guilty of it) so what's the point of more empirical proof such as squigly lines showing fueling? It'll do nought to change anybody's mind.

I've got a remapped bike and feel no need to prove anything. My bike's even nicer to ride than it was before. I'm happy. End of.

Andres

 

[Deleted account 190920002]

Otto, the forums haven't changed much over the years have they? The good the bad and the, let's see what was that word? Yes daft.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

I think the answer is, one guy on here who's dyno guy has told him Hilltop are pulling a fast one versus countless guys on here that are more than happy with what Hilltop have achieved. I have yet to read a thread on here where somebody has come away from Hilltop unhappy.

Now that, itself, points to where the fact is and where the fiction is.



Now.........we also have peeps that have had independent verification of what Hilltop have achieved. Will that shut up the doubters? No, of course not. The doubters know what they know and nothing will change their point of view ('tis human nature after all, we are all guilty of it) so what's the point of more empirical proof such as squigly lines showing fueling? It'll do nought to change anybody's mind.

I've got a remapped bike and feel no need to prove anything. My bike's even nicer to ride than it was before. I'm happy. End of.

Andres

I, for one, would be convinced by a few simple measurements. Lacking them, I remain a respectful sceptic.

It is a certainty that you can alter the fueling and spark by remapping (sometimes for the worse). But there are stark limits to what you can do if you leave the O2 sensors connected or if there are knock sensors.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

I don't know what all the fuss is about to be honest. Every single person who has been to Hilltop has been pleased with the results and their bike feels and goes better than it did before.

Figures don't mean shit in the real world and everyone I have spoken to has said it's money well spent.

I wish people would just accept that it works, people are happy with the results and move on.......

 

[ossa eck]

Michael, I didn't reply to slap you down, probably like your own posts my reply was meant to be informative.

I can only apologise if you took it as a slap.

Lots of bikes can be mapped through the diagnostic socket, your bike as you correctly said can be. It has a BMSK ME9 ecu.

My reply was in regard to "new bikes" . Im not aware of any gear that can alter the GS LC , BMS-X ME17.2 ecu's without being opened.

Eck.

 

[Bryn]

What we need is someone to pop up and say "Took my bike to Hilltop and had it remapped.. now it's shit "

 

[Nutty]

What we need is someone to pop up and say "Took my bike to Hilltop and had it remapped.. now it's shit "

That's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Norfolk Tiger]

I think the answer is, one guy on here who's dyno guy has told him Hilltop are pulling a fast one versus countless guys on here that are more than happy with what Hilltop have achieved. I have yet to read a thread on here where somebody has come away from Hilltop unhappy.

Now that, itself, points to where the fact is and where the fiction is.



Now.........we also have peeps that have had independent verification of what Hilltop have achieved. Will that shut up the doubters? No, of course not. The doubters know what they know and nothing will change their point of view ('tis human nature after all, we are all guilty of it) so what's the point of more empirical proof such as squigly lines showing fueling? It'll do nought to change anybody's mind.

I've got a remapped bike and feel no need to prove anything. My bike's even nicer to ride than it was before. I'm happy. End of.

Andres

A big plus 1 from me I can't believe I'm agreeing with a hippy

 

[DING-DONG]

Im not aware of any gear that can alter the GS LC , BMS-X ME17.2 ecu's without being opened.

Eck.

Geoff does not open the ecu up on the GS WC Tbh it sounds tho the man at hilltop knows a bit more about ecu mapping then yourself.

Everyday is a school day

 

[Toddmeister]

Toddmeister also took his Hilltopped LC to an independent Dyno, and the figures were the same, give or take a couple of bhp.

Indeed I did, and the guy who Dyno'd it was most impressed with how the bike was set up. He reckoned the fuelling was spot on and the torque curve creamy smooth and he said there was nothing he could do to improve it (they normally fit power commanders).

So there you go, that's two folk on here who have had their bikes checked on Dynos that are nothing to do with Hilltop and have got pretty much identical power and torque curves to the one's produced by Geoff

You would think that would be ample proof for even the most sceptical!

 

[Roadrash Rider]

Indeed I did, and the guy who Dyno'd it was most impressed with how the bike was set up. He reckoned the fuelling was spot on and the torque curve creamy smooth and he said there was nothing he could do to improve it (they normally fit power commanders).

So there you go, that's two folk on here who have had their bikes checked on Dynos that are nothing to do with Hilltop and have got pretty much identical power and torque curves to the one's produced by Geoff

You would think that would be ample proof for even the most sceptical!

No the man in question has 'proof of three' bikes that don't do what they say on the tin! And the fact that the rest of us luddites know nothing but have all said we're happy with our bikes apparently means sweet FA, oh well each to their own.


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[BlueBird]

........best leave that at just a rumour eh

Andres

Yeah a rumour

I think Jeff needs to supply some expensive looking carbon sticker with every remap, to appease the "Peacocks" or "willy wavers" amongst us so they can show the world they have been mapped

Then again I expect he's just laughing his arse off.

 

[ossa eck]

Geoff does not open the ecu up on the GS WC Tbh it sounds tho the man at hilltop knows a bit more about ecu mapping then yourself.

Everyday is a school day

Ok if your that smart tell me what equipment he is using to remap GS WC

 

[Greenman14]

And the moon landings were faked and the CIA shot president Kennedy and MI6 killed Princess Diana, and global warming is a fiction as well. Some people will just not be convinced by a body of evidence. My bike is Hilltopped and it's the best £350 I ever spent on any motorcycle.

 

[DutchBryn]

It's been a few years and 15k mile plus since mine was done. And no, it has not talked itself back to how it was when I first bought it.
In a nut shell: +1 for Bilks' comment above.

 

[DING-DONG]

Ok if your that smart tell me what equipment he is using to remap GS WC

So what your saying, is it's impossible to map this bike without hacking into the ecu, but I removed the battery cover and geoff plunged into the port and in return gave me the above, he did not remove or pull the ecu apart, this is my 4th bike done by geoff.

I've also had my TC done and have both graphs from having a pcv fitted and Hilltopped mapped and both are in comparison.

 

[Toddmeister]

OK so here's the print out of the Dyno run I had done at Power Biking in High Wycombe in February this year, almost exactly one year after Geoff at Hilltop did my remap. Apologies for the quality of the photo but hopefully it's good enough to see enough detail. Powerbiking is owned and run by Brian Gray, who some of you will know has been racing sidecars for a long time! The Dyno is the same make as the one used by Geoff.

I'll leave you to compare the torque and power curves to those posted earlier in this thread and make your own minds up as to which represents the best value for money.

Thank you to Delboy for putting his graph up though - it has to be the best advert for a Hilltop remap that's been posted on here

 

[ossa eck]

So what your saying, is it's impossible to map this bike without hacking into the ecu, but I removed the battery cover and geoff plunged into the port and in return gave me the above, he did not remove or pull the ecu apart, this is my 4th bike done by geoff.

I've also had my TC done and have both graphs from having a pcv fitted and Hilltopped mapped and both are in comparison.

You are showing a pic of dyno plot,this isn't what is used to remap the ecu.

Nothing is impossible,what couldn't be done yesterday can often be done tomorrow.

I said im not aware of any equipment that can remap the newer ME17.2 type ecu's.

Older ecu's are done through the diagnostic port.

Removing 4 screw and opening an ecu is hardly hacking into it.

Everyday is a school day, just some folk never learn.