Almost took the words right out of my mouth.
Hilltop Motorcycles fact or fiction
- Thread starter MalcGSA
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Almost took the words right out of my mouth.
Indeed. Get a life.
It works a treat. Who cares exactly what the program does.
My 1200 Tc GSA is like a new bike.
Well done Geoff.
It works a treat. Who cares exactly what the program does.
My 1200 Tc GSA is like a new bike.
Well done Geoff.
i detect from the content of his posts that he may either be a detail geek/worrier ala Rasher, or he may have a vested interest in the American purveyor of the lambda altering device - boneyard? As you state, it seems unlikely that he will avail himself of Hilltop's services and just appears to like stiring the pot.
Alan R
Sheesh.
12 pages of, it works, it might not work, he's fibbing, he's not fibbing, how does it work?, what's it to you, I want his babies, etc.
Human nature being what it is, if you've spent a few hundred quid on something then you really want to believe that it's worked and has made a difference but from the other side of the coin, if you've spent £12k on a bike you really don't want to be told that it doesn't work properly and that you need to spend a few hundred quid on some 'secret magic'. In the end, it's a personal choice but I don't see the problem with asking questions.
Personally, I've never been that comfortable with 'secret magic' - I've been an engineer of some flavour all my life and I like to know the how and why of just about everything. But assuming this Hilltop stuff actually does work, the 'how and why' are crucial to Geoff's business so he's pretty unlikely to tell anyone what he does.
That said, I don't see why anyone should be shouted down for wanting to understand what's going on with one of these 'tunes'. The 'technical' sections of this forum (and others) are all about the 'how and why' of our bikes. Even if someone chooses not to DIY, without people working stuff out and sharing their knowledge and experiences many people would be much less able to make informed decisions about the technical aspects of their bikes and any work they might want to have done or do themselves.
12 pages of, it works, it might not work, he's fibbing, he's not fibbing, how does it work?, what's it to you, I want his babies, etc.
Human nature being what it is, if you've spent a few hundred quid on something then you really want to believe that it's worked and has made a difference but from the other side of the coin, if you've spent £12k on a bike you really don't want to be told that it doesn't work properly and that you need to spend a few hundred quid on some 'secret magic'. In the end, it's a personal choice but I don't see the problem with asking questions.
Personally, I've never been that comfortable with 'secret magic' - I've been an engineer of some flavour all my life and I like to know the how and why of just about everything. But assuming this Hilltop stuff actually does work, the 'how and why' are crucial to Geoff's business so he's pretty unlikely to tell anyone what he does.
That said, I don't see why anyone should be shouted down for wanting to understand what's going on with one of these 'tunes'. The 'technical' sections of this forum (and others) are all about the 'how and why' of our bikes. Even if someone chooses not to DIY, without people working stuff out and sharing their knowledge and experiences many people would be much less able to make informed decisions about the technical aspects of their bikes and any work they might want to have done or do themselves.
MattW said it. My 0.02p worth. Part throttle response is more important for road riders (some may not realise this) and circuit racers. The road racer wants better performance at big throttle openings because they spend more time on the stops than circuit racing. Road riders probably use the first 50% of throttle movement more than the last bit of travel.
What the remap should do is to give you a better throttle response at smaller openings. Better meaning a more predictable and smoother response to inputs from the twist grip. Most notable when filtering traffic (not like a scooter rider in Spain) or negotiating bumps in the road or carrying a load (the missus I mean) or doing U-turns for the matter. By all accounts of those who visited Hilltop this is what they have reported back and are very happy. To the guy that wants more power at the top end a remap is one way to go but usually to get the best from it some modifications needs to be made to improve the efficiency of the engine before a remap is done. So now we are talking about exhaust, headers, throttle valves, gas flow, head skimming, etc etc. Some engines responds better to certain tunes but that is for a master engine builder/tuner to know. This is when a remap will have its best result. And turbo engines do respond very well to it. Audi S6 with a remap can see as much power output as standard RS6 which is some going.
So for the doubters on here. There is nothing wrong with questioning the results. By all means you can pay the money for the dyno time and ask to have the bike recorded for part throttle openings to check results before and after. I doubt any will do this. But there is no question that a remap be it PC or Rexxer or ECU flash when done properly will give a better result. Any doubts, how about 160bhp out of an HP2 Sport.
What the remap should do is to give you a better throttle response at smaller openings. Better meaning a more predictable and smoother response to inputs from the twist grip. Most notable when filtering traffic (not like a scooter rider in Spain) or negotiating bumps in the road or carrying a load (the missus I mean) or doing U-turns for the matter. By all accounts of those who visited Hilltop this is what they have reported back and are very happy. To the guy that wants more power at the top end a remap is one way to go but usually to get the best from it some modifications needs to be made to improve the efficiency of the engine before a remap is done. So now we are talking about exhaust, headers, throttle valves, gas flow, head skimming, etc etc. Some engines responds better to certain tunes but that is for a master engine builder/tuner to know. This is when a remap will have its best result. And turbo engines do respond very well to it. Audi S6 with a remap can see as much power output as standard RS6 which is some going.
So for the doubters on here. There is nothing wrong with questioning the results. By all means you can pay the money for the dyno time and ask to have the bike recorded for part throttle openings to check results before and after. I doubt any will do this. But there is no question that a remap be it PC or Rexxer or ECU flash when done properly will give a better result. Any doubts, how about 160bhp out of an HP2 Sport.
Not if it's a hilltop one because there's nothing to see....it's all software
Deleted account 200502001
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The correct answer is of course yes. But the realistic answer from everyone here is no. What folk should do and what they actually do are seldom the same. Its a modification which your insurer will want to know about, but its generally regarded to be undetectable, which is why most folk don't bother.
Oh God, I'm feeling that deja vu feeling......
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Roger 04 RT
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Agreed.Roger's still a cock though.
If this thread has reached the point of name calling, the playground response is, "takes one to know one."
You and I are on the same page. My dad spent 40 years repairing heavy equipment but impressed upon me that you needed to understand how something worked before you threw parts at a problem.
After spending $150 on a Boosterplug shortly after I got my 1150, which did nothing, I started to look into how these bikes fueled. Here's my research, mistakes and all:http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?56990-2004-R1150RT-Wideband-O2-Sensors.
If this thread has reached the point of name calling, the playground response is, "takes one to know one."
You and I are on the same page. My dad spent 40 years repairing heavy equipment but impressed upon me that you needed to understand how something worked before you threw parts at a problem.
After spending $150 on a Boosterplug shortly after I got my 1150, which did nothing, I started to look into how these bikes fueled. Here's my research, mistakes and all:http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?56990-2004-R1150RT-Wideband-O2-Sensors.
I can understand you wanting to find out about something you don't understand. I'm like that with GOD. But I'm not frustrated about it because at the end of the day I will never know about GOD and I don't have any GOD given right to know about GOD. I think you need to just accept the same concerning Hilltop, get over it and move on.
Bendy toy
Registered user
I spent £25 on a used accelerator module (same as booster plug but cheaper). It made the throttle response feel woolly and the bike used a lot more fuel so I took it off and forgot about it.
Strictly speaking yes because the bike is no longer standard and they may view it as performance enhancement - whether or not you will get away with it is another matter, but if you make a change from standard without telling them then you are in breach of your contract. Read your policy details and I am sure that it is made very clear.
ghiribizzo
Registered user
My goodness - I'm agreeing with Bendy toy again... 
A while back I unplugged one of those accelerator modules on a 1200 GS. The GS911 showed that it was apparently about 16C cooler than reality.
The bike was running so rich that even when warmed up a few quick rev-ups were producing black smoke reminiscent of a Guzzi LM with 40mm carbs (they have accelerator pumps...). The motor oil in the GS was stinking of petrol and the response was as Bendy said. Wooly.
After a service the bike was going impressively well, I thought.
Our man liked it and I guess felt annoyed at paying for something that worked 'as described' but it sure wasn't making things better for the bike, owner or the environment.
So I'm looking forward to seeing Cammy's bike again soon.
Are you and Geoff producing T-shirts Cammy? "Have you been Hillltopped?"
A while back I unplugged one of those accelerator modules on a 1200 GS. The GS911 showed that it was apparently about 16C cooler than reality.
The bike was running so rich that even when warmed up a few quick rev-ups were producing black smoke reminiscent of a Guzzi LM with 40mm carbs (they have accelerator pumps...). The motor oil in the GS was stinking of petrol and the response was as Bendy said. Wooly.
After a service the bike was going impressively well, I thought.
Our man liked it and I guess felt annoyed at paying for something that worked 'as described' but it sure wasn't making things better for the bike, owner or the environment.
So I'm looking forward to seeing Cammy's bike again soon.
Are you and Geoff producing T-shirts Cammy? "Have you been Hillltopped?"
My goodness - I'm agreeing with Bendy toy again...
A while back I unplugged one of those accelerator modules on a 1200 GS. The GS911 showed that it was apparently about 16C cooler than reality.
The bike was running so rich that even when warmed up a few quick rev-ups were producing black smoke reminiscent of a Guzzi LM with 40mm carbs (they have accelerator pumps...). The motor oil in the GS was stinking of petrol and the response was as Bendy said. Wooly.
After a service the bike was going impressively well, I thought.
Our man liked it and I guess felt annoyed at paying for something that worked 'as described' but it sure wasn't making things better for the bike, owner or the environment.
So I'm looking forward to seeing Cammy's bike again soon.
Are you and Geoff producing T-shirts Cammy? "Have you been Hillltopped?"
I had an accelerator module followed by a Wunderlich Fuel Controller (Techlusion) followed by a remap. I didn't notice a difference with the Accelerator module but did with the latter two. After the remap I tried an experiment with the Accelerator module and plugged that back in. The GS911 showed it fooling the ECU that it was 20 degrees cooler than it was (air temp). I ran the engine up and it produced exactly the same response as you described with yours.
Why ? It's making the engine run properly, surely, not adding a turbo.
If you go back 20 or more years, no-one would ring up their insurance company & say "I've had the bike Serviced. Valve clearances set, points carefully timed & carbs. balanced. It's now running how the manufacturer intended. What do I owe you?"
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