Hilltop Motorcycles fact or fiction

[MattW]

Why ? It's making the engine run properly, surely, not adding a turbo.
If you go back 20 or more years, no-one would ring up their insurance company & say "I've had the bike Serviced. Valve clearances set, points carefully timed & carbs. balanced. It's now running how the manufacturer intended. What do I owe you?"

Puhleeze...

It's a performance enhancing modification which alters the engine management parameters from the manufacturers specifications - of course your insurance company will want to know.

However as noted previously as there is no external evidence that it's been done you're very unlikely to fall foul in the event of an investigation by the insurer. That is, unless your bike is covered in 'I've been Hilltopped!!!' stickers or the insurer reads this forum

 

[Deleted account 200502001]

I spent £25 on a used accelerator module (same as booster plug but cheaper). It made the throttle response feel woolly and the bike used a lot more fuel so I took it off and forgot about it.

Clearly you haven't!

 

[Bryn]

Puhleeze...

as there is no external evidence that it's been done you're very unlikely to fall foul in the event of an investigation by the insurer.

If it gets to the point post accident where the insurers want to pull the bike apart and check stuff like the mapping... a) they won't be able to because there will be little left of it and b) you needn't worry as you most likely won't be around any more

 

[MattW]

If it gets to the point post accident where the insurers want to pull the bike apart and check stuff like the mapping... a) they won't be able to because there will be little left of it and b) you needn't worry as you most likely won't be around any more

Very true but that's not the same as 'should you tell your insurers', to which the answer is yes

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Very true but that's not the same as 'should you tell your insurers', to which the answer is yes

All well and good but if you buy a pre loved GS that has the Hilltop map and don't know it ......

Whoever bought my old bike has a re mapped 1200GS but will not know it other than it goes well compared to his mates !

 

[Roger 04 RT]

I had an accelerator module followed by a Wunderlich Fuel Controller (Techlusion) followed by a remap. I didn't notice a difference with the Accelerator module but did with the latter two. After the remap I tried an experiment with the Accelerator module and plugged that back in. The GS911 showed it fooling the ECU that it was 20 degrees cooler than it was (air temp). I ran the engine up and it produced exactly the same response as you described with yours.

This is exactly why I've been asking how things work. On my bike the boosterplug did part one of what it claimed to do--lowered the air temp as reported by the GS-911 by 20C. Part two was that the AFR should then be richer, Open Loop, by 6%, which only happened for a short time, as measured by my exhaust Wideband O2 sensor. After a bit of riding, the AFR was exactly back where it started even though the GS-911 still reported the 20C offset. Luckily this isn't a boosterplug thread or someone would say I was being cheeky.

 

[cammy5477]

My goodness - I'm agreeing with Bendy toy again...
A while back I unplugged one of those accelerator modules on a 1200 GS. The GS911 showed that it was apparently about 16C cooler than reality.
The bike was running so rich that even when warmed up a few quick rev-ups were producing black smoke reminiscent of a Guzzi LM with 40mm carbs (they have accelerator pumps...). The motor oil in the GS was stinking of petrol and the response was as Bendy said. Wooly.
After a service the bike was going impressively well, I thought.
Our man liked it and I guess felt annoyed at paying for something that worked 'as described' but it sure wasn't making things better for the bike, owner or the environment.
So I'm looking forward to seeing Cammy's bike again soon.

Are you and Geoff producing T-shirts Cammy? "Have you been Hillltopped?"

You know what they say Ian. ...once you've been mapped you don't look back ;-)
Or once you've been topped your exhaust don't go pop. And yes these will also go on our t shirts.

 

[TimboLeMatelot]

I think many of you have missed the point.....its not about bhp. For me it is all about getting the fuelling RIGHT, that means a correct AFR reading all the way through the reve range and load conditions so hopefully I will avoid the burnt out valve scenario (see Navejo's post of yesterday).

Geoff's mod puts the fuelling in a closed loop mode all the time so you avoid a lean mixture scenario.

Lean fuelling = hot exhaust gas = siezed exhaust valves and if siezed open enough a collision with the piston = tears at bedtime.

Increased bhp and smoother running are the result of correct fuelling and a smile from me as I know I am getting the best out of the engine.

For what it is worth I do not think Geoff loads a new map, he has modified the control strategy itself which is different to changing a map and running the same software.

I have 35years engineering background and in my conversation with Geoff I am of the opinion he is 100% genuine as is what he does.

For my own part I am seriously considering selling my TC as I am seriously unimpressed with BMW. I am considering a Tiger 1050 Sport instead.

BW

TimboLM

 

[Blackal]

I think many of you have missed the point.....its not about bhp. For me it is all about getting the fuelling RIGHT, that means a correct AFR reading all the way through the reve range and load conditions so hopefully I will avoid the burnt out valve scenario (see Navejo's post of yesterday).

I have 35years engineering background........

TimboLM

I mean this in a caring and supportive manner..... But,who the fcuk are you- to tell anyone that they have "missed the point"????

then go on to say what is important to you................

How about you let each individual decide - what they are looking for?

35yrs.........

Al

 

[Schtum]

Geoff's mod puts the fuelling in a closed loop mode all the time so you avoid a lean mixture scenario.

I'm not sure what you're basing that one but as far as I'm aware it's not possible without fitting wideband O2 sensors.

 

[Beemerman59]

I think many of you have missed the point.....its not about bhp.

I think you'll find that if you read all the posts from those who've had the remap, on all the Hilltop threads, that's precisely the point they do all make

 

[Deleted account 200502001]

I think many of you have missed the point.....its not about bhp.

I mean this in a caring and supportive manner..... But,who the fcuk are you- to tell anyone that they have "missed the point"????

then go on to say what is important to you................

I thought it was all about the full english breakfast from the caf down the road?

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I thought it was all about the full english breakfast from the caf down the road?

Not if you're a veggie it ain't

Andres

 

[Deleted account 200502001]

Not if you're a veggie it ain't

Andres

I recall they do serve toast. Or maybe they would let you graze on the grass verge outside?

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I recall they do serve toast. Or maybe they would let you graze on the grass verge outside?

Somebody say 'grass'?

Andres

 

[Nutty]

I think you'll find that if you read all the posts from those who've had the remap, on all the Hilltop threads, that's precisely the point they do all make

Most people seem to be pleased with the reduction in vibrations, and the elimination of flat spots. The BHP and torque figures aren't as important, but sound good down the pub.

 

[Bendy toy]

Some engines are (a) restricted by the manufacturer at the ECU map and others were (b) not properly set up in the first place. So it's no surprise that a bike with (a) and (b) will see significant gains when its all sorted out.

I had a VW TDI-90 chipped back in the 1990s. It went from flat as a fart to very usable with 110bhp and no more smoke than before. It looked very much as though VW restricted the 90 so they could charge more money for the 110 even though there was little mechanical difference between the two. Mine also had a badly set up turbo that caused the ECU to cut fuel and limit the already nothing special power output. Fixing that with the new chip made a huge difference.

Yes it was diesel and yes it was at least 15 years ago, but the principles are the same. Sort out any poor tuning and remove the factory map restrictions and you will see big improvements.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

I think many of you have missed the point.....its not about bhp. For me it is all about getting the fuelling RIGHT, that means a correct AFR reading all the way through the reve range and load conditions so hopefully I will avoid the burnt out valve scenario (see Navejo's post of yesterday).

Geoff's mod puts the fuelling in a closed loop mode all the time so you avoid a lean mixture scenario.

Lean fuelling = hot exhaust gas = siezed exhaust valves and if siezed open enough a collision with the piston = tears at bedtime.

Increased bhp and smoother running are the result of correct fuelling and a smile from me as I know I am getting the best out of the engine.

For what it is worth I do not think Geoff loads a new map, he has modified the control strategy itself which is different to changing a map and running the same software.

I have 35years engineering background and in my conversation with Geoff I am of the opinion he is 100% genuine as is what he does.

For my own part I am seriously considering selling my TC as I am seriously unimpressed with BMW. I am considering a Tiger 1050 Sport instead.

BW

TimboLM

I'm not sure what you're basing that one but as far as I'm aware it's not possible without fitting wideband O2 sensors.

The R1200 can be easily measured with a Wideband sensor to show fueling changes before and after. It is 100% clear that the R1200 comes from the factory running closed loop at lambda=1 (14.7:1) almost all the time below 50% throttle. Friends of mine who own R1200s have tested this, sent the data, and I have posted it. I'll add links if anyone is interested.

Geoff might alter the control strategy but it is more likely that he would eliminate closed loop and then alter the fuel table. I sent an email to ask about this last week but have not yet had a response.

If one wants to richen the mixture in a sure way, that can be verified, add LC-2s or AF-XIEDs, shift the O2 sensor switching point and the BMSK does the fuel additions with no further modification.

 

[Blackal]

Some engines are (a) restricted by the manufacturer at the ECU map and others were (b) not properly set up in the first place. So it's no surprise that a bike with (a) and (b) will see significant gains when its all sorted out.

I had a VW TDI-90 chipped back in the 1990s.

Yes it was diesel and yes it was at least 15 years ago, but the principles are the same. Sort out any poor tuning and remove the factory map restrictions and you will see big improvements.

Not really the same, at all........... You are referring to a forced induction engine, not a naturally-aspirated one.

Al

 

[Wreford Miles]

Would a standard 110 BHP TC 1200 ADV out drag a lighter 114BHP spec KTM 990?

If no then I can confirm that my smoother, nicer to ride 1200 can also spank the KTM (more than once)