Horrid at low rpm . . .

[HPNer]

My 09 GS is a pig in town at low rpm, 2nd and third gear stuff, coughs and splutters and has even stalled. This is the fifth GS of a variety of flavours and now has become miserable to ride. Constantly having to dip the clutch to give it a few beans. Once over 2500rpm its fine.
I know "they all do that sir . . ." but surely not like this. The R9T I rode the other day had the sweetest engine.
Its 11k miles, got an Akro (baffle removed) and still has its cat. It did have an accelerator module and has been remapped by Geoff at Hilltop (he said best without the module after remap). I've checked the coil sticks (each coil stick seems to work, but not tested under load). Any wise men here have any clues as to where I should be looking. I'm tempted to just replace the primary coils as maybe could be just degrading rather than a complete fail.
I'm tearing my hair out!

 

[dern]

Make sure the valve clearances are right and the throttle bodies are balanced before you start trying to diagnose faults.

Mark

 

[DrFarkoff]

Is that Independent in Cardiff not still operating ??

Why not go see what he thinks

Sorry I don;t know what he's called but I believe he has a good rep

My 09 GS is a pig in town at low rpm, 2nd and third gear stuff, coughs and splutters and has even stalled. This is the fifth GS of a variety of flavours and now has become miserable to ride. Constantly having to dip the clutch to give it a few beans. Once over 2500rpm its fine.
I know "they all do that sir . . ." but surely not like this. The R9T I rode the other day had the sweetest engine.
Its 11k miles, got an Akro (baffle removed) and still has its cat. It did have an accelerator module and has been remapped by Geoff at Hilltop (he said best without the module after remap). I've checked the coil sticks (each coil stick seems to work, but not tested under load). Any wise men here have any clues as to where I should be looking. I'm tempted to just replace the primary coils as maybe could be just degrading rather than a complete fail.
I'm tearing my hair out!

 

[GBDamo]

Interested to hear what peoples thoughts are on this as mine can be similar at times.

 

[JerseyNeil]

Are you sure it's not because you are using 3rd gear in town?

The reason I say this as living on a small island with a speed limit of 40mph (sometimes) I wouldn't dream of going over 2nd gear in town. In fact the only time I go into 4th on mine generally is when I get on the ferry to France.

I'm more than likely talking out of my arse and it's just a thought.

Neil

 

[Spout]

Are you accidently twisting the throttle as you start it?

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Try the throttle bodies.

 

[GBDamo]

Try the throttle bodies.

Try what with them?

 

[oldnfat]

Balancing them, can make a big difference. Next I would be replacing the plugs....when was the last serviced? Big twins are a bit jumpy at low revs however your bike should not be that bad so as others have said....get sorted before doing other stuff. Once this has been done I had very good results with an accelerator module....about £30. This has the effect of enriching the fuel air mixture as these bikes are set up very lean. Simple to fit and made a big difference to low rev response.....made the bike a joy in town and so much smoother getting back on the throttle.

 

[snaponphil]

My 09 GS is a pig in town at low rpm, 2nd and third gear stuff, coughs and splutters and has even stalled. This is the fifth GS of a variety of flavours and now has become miserable to ride. Constantly having to dip the clutch to give it a few beans. Once over 2500rpm its fine.
I know "they all do that sir . . ." but surely not like this. The R9T I rode the other day had the sweetest engine.
Its 11k miles, got an Akro (baffle removed) and still has its cat. It did have an accelerator module and has been remapped by Geoff at Hilltop (he said best without the module after remap). I've checked the coil sticks (each coil stick seems to work, but not tested under load). Any wise men here have any clues as to where I should be looking. I'm tempted to just replace the primary coils as maybe could be just degrading rather than a complete fail.
I'm tearing my hair out!

Same problem on my GSA in the past, it was under warranty at 4k miles, dealer just changed the spark plugs, I thought to myself no way was this just plugs, hey oh, I eat my nasty thoughts, never a problem again & sweet as a nut..
Easy DIY fix too..

Good luck..

 

[SteveM]

Ride the R100 instead

 

[Ted]

We have 2 09 GSs in the family so can compare them. Mine is, or was, just like yours a pig to ride at low speed, Uturns, slow filtering etc all needed constant clutch and throttle adjustment. Sue on the other hand is perfect, can ride it just on the throttle even at silly revs. Had the bikes for over 3 years and we almost always ride together so make a very good comparison. After lots of checking over the years, tappets, throttle bodies etc, etc didn't make much difference. Also mine seemed to use slightly more fuel. I would do all of the above checks and be very sure all is right and set up correctly, but.
Cure for my bike was a trip to Hilltop, massive thread on here. Now 99% cured, fuel consumption now very similar, snatchiness gone and bonus of a bigger push once above 4000 rev/min. On the dyno mine had a very weak mixture almost all the way through and particularly at lower revs. Would recommend it as a worth while service. Without turning this into another "Hilltop discussion" about power gains and claims, cost. I think it was worth while and less than half the cost of a lot of exhaust cans the promise loads and only produce more noise. If you intend to hang on to the bike for a while may be worth thinking about.

As for the bigger push. Was a few days after I had it done and to be honest apart from the smoothness hadn't really noticed any thing. On my usual trip home joined the motorway,50mph 3rd gear ready to accelerate. Wound open the throttle and took off like a scalded cat, straight to rev limiter and feeling very light at the front. Now find it very useful when overtaking and often have to slow for Sue to catch up, which makes a change
Well worth the trip and cost

 

[HPNer]

Thanks everybody, some interesting replies!
I don't twist the throttle on starting, not sure how this could alter anything or indeed why anyone would do it. I can't imagine not using 3rd in town! As I mentioned, the bike had a Hilltop remap a couple of weeks back and I believe Geoff balanced the throttles, and yes the mixture was ridiculously weak and now far richer. But its still a pig!! The accelerator module I put on two years ago and to be honest, I never though the effect was that great, anyway,Geoff took it off during the remap.
It had its last service 9 months ago (c4k miles). It will be going in for service shortly, but it does feel an ignition problem rather than a fuel issue, just a gut feeling rather than any scientific based view. If its simply the plugs, I'll kick myself for not doing it before!
At the service I'll ask for tappets, plugs and primary coil sticks, although if they do all these at the same time and it settles I won't know which was the offending issue!
Welcome any further suggestions, I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

 

[Beemerman59]

Thanks everybody, some interesting replies!
I don't twist the throttle on starting, not sure how this could alter anything or indeed why anyone would do it. I can't imagine not using 3rd in town! As I mentioned, the bike had a Hilltop remap a couple of weeks back and I believe Geoff balanced the throttles, and yes the mixture was ridiculously weak and now far richer. But its still a pig!! The accelerator module I put on two years ago and to be honest, I never though the effect was that great, anyway,Geoff took it off during the remap.
It had its last service 9 months ago (c4k miles). It will be going in for service shortly, but it does feel an ignition problem rather than a fuel issue, just a gut feeling rather than any scientific based view. If its simply the plugs, I'll kick myself for not doing it before!
At the service I'll ask for tappets, plugs and primary coil sticks, although if they do all these at the same time and it settles I won't know which was the offending issue!
Welcome any further suggestions, I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

Geoff recommends changing the plugs after the remap anyway - I would do that first as its cheap and easy. I doubt he balanced the throttle bodies on your bike unless specifically arranged so that's worthwhile doing to. Fitting new stick coils is expensive and as you say, you wouldn't know what had done what if you get them done at the same time.

 

[Bendy toy]

Take out the primary coils. If they are the old black type they may well be failing. Both of mine went down within days making diagnosing tough because I was swapping two dodgy coils about. Mine also had the characteristic hot electrics smell. New coils solve the stalling and put fuel consumption back to normal.

My brother's bike was cosseted from new. Great! Erm... no. The engine is still tight after thrashing it for 10K miles. It's also soggy and prone to stumble at low revs. Mine was run in properly by its original owner and now has nearly 50K on the clock. Its got more of a loose feel in the transmission and is rough if you chug it but it doesnt stumble at low revs (with the new coils that is).

Big twins should not be chugged it puts huge strain on the crank and conrods

 

[Spout]

I don't twist the throttle on starting, not sure how this could alter anything or indeed why anyone would do it.

On a couple of occasions I accidently started my GS with a twist of throttle (I also had a carb'ed bike that needed it ) - it created the symptoms you mention - really bad running at low revs (popping, farting, stalling).

Opening the throttle on start up apparently confuses the magic box ??? - doesn't know where "no throttle" is.

Simply stopping and restarting without touching the twistgrip cured symptoms every time.

 

[bobtail]

My 09 GSA was the same as what you have described in your post a right pig in traffic on low revs constant clutching and throttle
I Was contomplating a change , done some digging on this site and decided on having a pc5 fitted and put on a dyno by a company in Bridgend s wales , it was running very lean
so of I went 2-3 hours later what a different bike much smother in traffic and mpg has increased a little ,
Olso when it's in for service as it's still under extended warranty I remove the pc5 and it reverts back to standard ,replace when I get back to the lab ,

 

[socket086]

sounds like a coil,

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

Hmm not sure about the twisting the throttle on startup causing problems, never heard of this before. That said it could be worth trying a TPS reset. Turn on the ignition, twist the throttle slowly fully and close 3 times and switch off the ignition. Proceed as normal. Easy to do and costs nothing. Theory is if the ecu thinks the throttle is somewhere it isn't then it could get a bit snatchy.

 

[HPNer]

Thanks for the replies, very much appreciated.
This bike is so so different from my 05 1200GS, that was Touratwats demo bike, I bought it with 1200 miles on the clock and sold it after 20k, it was a bloody cracker.
It came with a full remus set up, which I junked for the full race twin pipe Akro set up and stuck Ohlins on it. Took ot to Europe back in '06 and did 20 countries in 20 days (don't ask!). Only slight problem was when the Danube burst its banks in Romania and I ploughed through too quickly and water poured in through the intake. Spectators laughed wildly . . . Three minutes later, I thought I'd give it a turn over, the water was well over my boots, and the bloody thing started! More wild laughter . . .!! I checked the oil sight later that day and it looked as if it was being lubricated/cooled by yoghurt! Not sure if I changed the oil for another 2k miles. The engine was properly run in! The little beats would run up to the limiter without batting an eyelid. Mechanical sympathy prevents me from taking the current bag of nails anywhere near the limiter . . .
How can two ostensibly similar bikes be so frigging different . . .
(Having said that, slightly off topic, but speaking of differences, I had my Porsche 997 Gen2 water cooled abomination stolen a month ago and I've replaced it with a 1994 Porsche 911 (993) air cooled. How did Porsche get it so wrong with the water cooled crap ...Surely BMW can't make a similar mistake)