Hot Starting Problem

[Carts]

Hi All

I'm after some info from the collective. Went out on my R1250GS 2019 model 22,000 miles. After 5 miles stopped to put in petrol, paid and when to start bike and the bike did one cough and died got error Traction Control limited. tried to start for the next hour but same issue. Called RAC they came in 30 mins and the bike started 1st time...He checked the battery and charging system and said all ok. On the last try before calling RAC I noticed volte were 11.5, after it started 30 min later showed 12.6 after I hit kill switch.

To me this sound like I have a drain on systems when hot under rare circumstances.

This happened to me at start of this season, that's why I waited an hour before calling RAC, it took BMW 2 1/2 hours to arrive and started 1st time. BMW dealer looked at system and said all looks OK,

Google your friend so I did some googling last night, there are a couple of threads with multiple solutions thoughts:-

Poor battery - May be but why did it recover, this has happed twice in 22,000 miles with maybe another 3 times black screen followed by starting 2 minutes later. So intermittent hard to tell, I changed tires after first issue and it went away, obviously not connected but would have been same if I changed battery. intermittent faults hard to diagnose.

Starter Motor dragging ? expensive to check/ replace looking at threads

Automatic decompressor, Valve clearance ? can get BMW to check

Starter Relay ? my thought on this was it happened on bike that had similar problems but at more regulars occurrence

Fuel injector Pressure when hot ? seen this on thread on here.


Has anybody got to the bottom of this with BMW

Cheers,

Carts

 

[bosnjo]

This issue has been discussed widely on UK and US forums. What happens is that when you turn off the bike the crank sometimes stops in wierd position, where the compression is highest. When that happens, your battery needs a lot of juice to start the bike. As the bike cools down, compression gets a bit lower so your battery is enough to start the engine. Many members solved this issue by purchasing stronger, non-OEM battery, like Yuasa YTX14H-BS.
I have 2021 GS and it has never happened to me but if it ever does, I'll replace the battery to the model I mentioned above. So, I have no experience with the issue and what I wrote is just the summary of all I have read on interweb.

 

[Pukmeister]

This issue has been discussed widely on UK and US forums.

........Many members solved this issue by purchasing stronger, non-OEM battery, like Yuasa YTX14H-BS.

I bought a spare Motobatt AGM from Tayna batteries for my previous Hexhead GSA just before I sold it and never got around to fitting it.
It is slightly deeper and a larger ampere capacity than the OE battery on the Hexheads but at first glance I think it will fit the WC bikes.
I might replace the OE battery in my 2019 GSA with it as a bit of preventive maintenance.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Carts]

Thanks Bosnjo

I did find one discussion on here and one on USA adventure site, as my post there seems to be a number of theory's. As I said the issues looks common but may be causes by different problems on different bikes.

Happy to fit a new battery, as this seems to be a common thread, may be a low charged battery means that what ever the problem is it cant turn over the engine, giving a common scenario.

I should of tried to turn the engine over, put in 6th gear and push, if in a weird position could solve?

For the engineers on here would a engine not usually stop in same position, probably not on TDS & thinking about it if engine coughs on starting the engine will have moved :. not in weir position? Seem to remember for tread on here its was something to do with pressures in injectors ? was beyond my level of understanding

 

[MKP]

Carts, had the same problem with my last GS a 2020 model. On my ride to work I stopped and when I tried to start, it had exactly the same codes that you describe. I tried to start it a couple of times and it just turned over very slowly not enough to fire up. As it was at about 4.30 am I tried to ask a company nearby if any one had jump leads but this was a no go. As no one was in the office to help I decided to try again and luckily as it had been about 30 minutes since I last tried it fired up. I went to work and parked up. Eight hours later for my journey home it fired up ok. As I was now unsure this wasn't going to happen again I changed the battery and had no further problems. As a mechanic, I realise that a flatish battery can throw up a number of faults on the screen which are all down to the low power in the battery. When I took it in for a service I highlighted the problem to them. They blamed the tracker and not the battery, eventually the tracker was changed for an updated version. I had no further issues. Not sure if this helps.

 

[GADGET]

Had the same problem last May with a newly purchased 1500 mile 1250GS, stopped for petrol, then wouldn't re-start, until bike had cooled down, was near Bristol (on my way to Plymouth ferry to Spain) so called in a Dick Lovetts Motorrad, where they kindly had a tech check it over straightaway (on May BH Saturday) the diagnosis was that the battery was okay, but problem was likely the valve decompressor. Known issue when bike is hot. I carried on to Spain and on day 2 hit another problem, with the rear brake virtually seizing on and subsequent recovery back to Santander BMW, where the bike stayed for 10 days, whilst Wife & I continued our 10 day journey in a hire car. Collecting bike again in time to get ferry back to Plymouth. Nothing had been done to it, they stated there was a battery issue, but would not replace under warranty, so I paid for them to fit a new one. Bike was fine after that, but was so dishartened with it after that I went back to a a 2016, non shift cam 1200 and also now have one of the last of the 1200 twin cam air/oil cooled RT's. I'm happy with a bit less 'tech'

 

[PhilBoy]

Had the same problem three times. Let bike cool down for an hour or two and would start again. Battery replaced under warranty by Williams Manchester, not Exide, no further problems. Common fault due to a bad batch of batteries apparently.

 

[Rowle]

This thread is gold. Makes a lot of sense and something to try if getting stuck with a warm no-start.
Thanks.

 

[Carts]

Thanks all, seem to be a known problem, bike will go in to Aberdeen BMW next week, I'm not expecting them to find anything.... at best probably say battery but will be non committal

Will put a new battery on next spring

For the technical ones how dose the valve decompressor work, is there a way to triggers it to work?

 

[malcopopolo]

Had the same problem last May with a newly purchased 1500 mile 1250GS, stopped for petrol, then wouldn't re-start, until bike had cooled down, was near Bristol (on my way to Plymouth ferry to Spain) so called in a Dick Lovetts Motorrad, where they kindly had a tech check it over straightaway (on May BH Saturday) the diagnosis was that the battery was okay, but problem was likely the valve decompressor. Known issue when bike is hot. I carried on to Spain and on day 2 hit another problem, with the rear brake virtually seizing on and subsequent recovery back to Santander BMW, where the bike stayed for 10 days, whilst Wife & I continued our 10 day journey in a hire car. Collecting bike again in time to get ferry back to Plymouth. Nothing had been done to it, they stated there was a battery issue, but would not replace under warranty, so I paid for them to fit a new one. Bike was fine after that, but was so dishartened with it after that I went back to a a 2016, non shift cam 1200 and also now have one of the last of the 1200 twin cam air/oil cooled RT's. I'm happy with a bit less 'tech'

Have to agree with your logic.

 

[Pukmeister]

Just to resurrect this thread briefly for those looking for a solution that stumble across this, I resolved my hot start problem by fitting a new Hybrid Motobatt battery and replacing the starter relay just in case.
Details in the 1250 section under the heading “Big Pile Of Dogshit”.

 

[MAgnus.LPA]

I'm resurrecting it again too haha!


The root cause of hot starting problems is exhaust VALVE CLEARANCE, as mentioned in the past by someone, I don't remember who exactly.
I have had the problem too and it is a fact well known by BMW mechanics.

Have your exhaust valve clearance adjusted to the max value in the range and you will never face this issue again.
Added benefit : my 1250 GS works MUCH better. It nows has 95 000 km on the dash, I've bought it when it had 10000 km and I can safely say that it has never worked that well! Going home from the BMW workshop, I was simply baffled by the difference!

As a side note, I must add that I too have fitted a Motobatt hybrid. And boy oh boy, what a great battery! It is expensive, but it provides such higher levels of energy that the whole bike feels better. No more ticking under load, which I have noticed happens with lower voltage batteries. My voltage reading is 13.1v with engine off. Any stock battery physically cannot go above 12.4 or 12.5v, as you all know.

It is the best battery I have ever fitted to a motorcycle.

 

[Rubble]

I'm resurrecting it again too haha!


The root cause of hot starting problems is exhaust VALVE CLEARANCE, as mentioned in the past by someone, I don't remember who exactly.
I have had the problem too and it is a fact well known by BMW mechanics.

Have your exhaust valve clearance adjusted to the max value in the range and you will never face this issue again.
Added benefit : my 1250 GS works MUCH better. It nows has 95 000 km on the dash, I've bought it when it had 10000 km and I can safely say that it has never worked that well! Going home from the BMW workshop, I was simply baffled by the difference!

As a side note, I must add that I too have fitted a Motobatt hybrid. And boy oh boy, what a great battery! It is expensive, but it provides such higher levels of energy that the whole bike feels better. No more ticking under load, which I have noticed happens with lower voltage batteries. My voltage reading is 13.1v with engine off. Any stock battery physically cannot go above 12.4 or 12.5v, as you all know.

It is the best battery I have ever fitted to a motorcycle.

Mine starting issues began about 18 months ago and have steadily gotten worse. It began with the 'let it sit for 30 minutes’ gradually became ‘it needs a jump start’ at which time I replace the Exide battery with a Yuasa (can’t recall the # but above BMW spec). Of course the dealer could find no problem and even denied having any knowledge of these issues… another dealer in another city at least said they had heard starting issues.
After having the new battery in for a week the video (sorry for the poor quality is what I’m up against:
BMW Boxer starting issues

 

[MAgnus.LPA]

Seriously, @Rubble, it pains me to see that!

Find a BMW dealer who knows more about the GS and they will adjust the valves. It is the cause of the issue. It's a known fact! And it's nothing, it's a small adjustment to make and you will never have the problem again for the next 50K miles!

Also, is the engine warm, in this video?


Edit: also, don't forget that repeatedly using a booster on batteries absolutely ruins them. In which case it makes it even harder to spot the cause of the issue, because indeed the battery itself is down on power. The thing is if you have a new battery and your 1250 boxer engine doesn't start when hot, it is a valve clearance issue. And the new goods news is that's it's an easy, "cheap" and quick fix. It's actually not even a fix. It is an adjustment to make. I would really start there, if I were you.

 

[Rubble]

Seriously, @Rubble, it pains me to see that!

Find a BMW dealer who knows more about the GS and they will adjust the valves. It is the cause of the issue. It's a known fact! And it's nothing, it's a small adjustment to make and you will never have the problem again for the next 50K miles!

Thanks for the info! I thought my dealer was competent but I am quickly losing faith. The valve issue definitely is plausible as it’s been getting worse as the kilometres rack up - despite the new battery!

 

[MAgnus.LPA]

Thanks for the info! I thought my dealer was competent but I am quickly losing faith. The valve issue definitely is plausible as it’s been getting worse as the kilometres rack up - despite the new battery!

I have had the EXACT same problem. Just like everyone in this thread.
Again, if this happens when the engine is hot, I am 99% confident it is an exhaust valve clearance issue.

And since I have had it fixed, it has NEVER happened again
I do the same thing everyday when going to work. 10 miles, stop at a gas station for breakfast, leave after 10 minutes. Before the fix, it happened systematically. Would not start. Changed batteries, used a 240CCA battery, nothing really helped. I then saw this thread, read about valve clearance, talked to my dealer, had him adjust them to maximum (or minimum, I never remember, please see a few messages above) tolerance and since then, ZERO issue.

And I still have in the back of my head that fear that it will happen again when I have ridden really hard and stopped for a short while. I did so yesterday, massive blast in the twisties, stopped for 10 minutes, started strong, no problem.

And by the way, this doesn't mean your dealer is incompetent It just means he has never faced a GS with that problem yet. It takes quite a lot of miles for the valves to go out of adjustment.

 

[Wag]

I've had this issue several times. What I do now is come to a stop, let the bike tick over for about 10 seconds then switch off. So far this seems to have worked. However, I bought a booster pack and keep it in the pannier. Maybe my bike knows that, and is afraid of having those clips put on so doesn't play up any more.

 

[Pukmeister]

To add to this thread, I agree 100% about maxing out the exhaust valve clearances as I believe they close up on a hot engine, prreventing the decompressor from working effectively.

At my last dealer service they adjusted the valves and my bike has been great since (and the Hybrid battery is also a beast at delivering cranking power).