How to test an independent mechanic

[Timpo]

So here I am... (figuratively speaking =)

I have to make a choice between guys who say "go ahead, test me". And guys who say "test me and you can feck off"...

Wonder who I'm more likely to go with?....

Lets face it, there are lots of untrustworthy tradesmen (people) around, and trust is earned, not expected....

It's sort of like saying "I need a deposit, or the ability to take a leen (sp?) out on your vehicle before I work on it... "

Al...

Hey... come on into the real world here.
Half the numpties on here work in offices, they have no mechanical knowledge or understanding whatsoever..... some of the ridiculous threads posted are proof of that.....
Now, they're marking bikes up to try and catch out mechs who have probably snot more knowledge about bikes out with one sneeze than shite-for-brains-desk-jockey has ever had. How do you expect the dummies to know when a job is done wrong, if they don't know how to do it right themselves.....
The mech could pull stunts inside the engine if he wanted to skimp on the job, and sfbdj would have no idea, but his marks have all been done/changed/retightened/erased..... easy innit!

Most mechs exist through word of mouth, reputation and previous results, so why would you want to close down and risk reducing your client base by doing a few dodgy jobs.......

Timpo.

 

[Stewart H]

Why the feck don`t you service it yourself ??????????????

Get the parts and spend an enjoyable hour/hour and a half doing the work and know full well that it`s been done.

Thats what I do, a couple of hours, very satisfying, and I know its done.
I also repair and service motor vehicles on a freelance basis, all word of mouth and previous custom, I would wonder about someone marking up what?
Most folks barely know where to put screenwash.
Happy for the owner to watch/assist though.

Stewart

 

[Timpo]

Thats what I do, a couple of hours, very satisfying, and I know its done.
I also repair and service motor vehicles on a freelance basis, all word of mouth and previous custom, I would wonder about someone marking up what?
Most folks barely know where to put screenwash.
Happy for the owner to watch/assist though.

Stewart

Exactly what I mean mate.....

Timpo.

 

[L]

Three reasons why I am not servicing it meself:

1) Space/tools - I don't have the space to have the bike safely in bits for an hour or two. Yes, I know St. Eptoe (and others I am sure) service bikes in extremely small spaces, but these people have the know-how and experience to ensure that if they come up against something unexpected, they have the tools/suppliers etc. to hand to sort it and the space to keep the bike safe until the solution is found. How many of you want to service the bike on the side of the road? Last time I had the tank off (as an example), the quick connector for the fuel line broke. It took me most of the day trying to get the replacement part sorted, during which time I had to put tank back on, move bike to out of way location, then move go through the whole thing again when I had the part... a royal PITA. (bear in mind the bike is my only means of transport).

2) Turks. I don't really relish having the locals come up to me every five mins and say to me "what the hell are you doing? are you mad? why don't you take it to the dealer?" The Turkish do not understand DIY in any form - anyone who undertakes DIY is either crazy or poor or both. OK, not a particularly good reason this one, but come out and try it one time!

3) Parts. Sourcing parts at reasonable prices can be a bit of a nightmare in Turkey. I'm after a full service - all fluids etc. etc. and am not sure what else will turn up. Brake pads (GOLD brand) for example, are 65Euros a pair (yes, 65 Euros!). Sourcing is as fraught with danger as choosing the right mechanic! It is quite possible to ask for the right stuff and be fobbed off with the wrong stuff or sold it at four, five times the correct price (being a foreigner, you may as well walk around with a neon sign saying "rip me off"). As an example, a mate went to the local dealer for a bolt, it wasn't in stock. " come back in 6-8 weeks please sir"... Another time, I went to three bike shops and two hardware stores looking to replace the tank bolt nut (I dropped the original one and it went down a drain -see point 1). Sale on return is not an option here either, so you should only buy what you know you're going to need.


You will find it difficult to imagine the horror stories I've heard and if I told you some of the schoolboy error stuff you can expect from most of the "professionals" here (in all industries), you would probably think I was making it up.

As this is the first major service the bike has had in my possession, I'm just trying to ensure it is done properly. I do not have the 1st hand experience to trust myself (I can do/have done most parts of a service, but not all), nor the on-hand support if things go wrong, nor do I have the tools, access to tools or space to do it myself.

Trade testing is not something I do by habit, but as mentioned previously things are different in Turkey!! If anyone wants to come out and give three of us a "how to service your 1150 or 1200 and then fix everything that is likely to go wrong on it" course, we'd be only too happy to receive you here in glorious Turkey!

 

[Tarka]

Three reasons why I am not servicing it meself:

1) Space/tools - I don't have the space to have the bike safely in bits for an hour or two. Yes, I know St. Eptoe (and others I am sure) service bikes in extremely small spaces, but these people have the know-how and experience to ensure that if they come up against something unexpected, they have the tools/suppliers etc. to hand to sort it and the space to keep the bike safe until the solution is found. How many of you want to service the bike on the side of the road? Last time I had the tank off (as an example), the quick connector for the fuel line broke. It took me most of the day trying to get the replacement part sorted, during which time I had to put tank back on, move bike to out of way location, then move go through the whole thing again when I had the part... a royal PITA. (bear in mind the bike is my only means of transport).

2) Turks. I don't really relish having the locals come up to me every five mins and say to me "what the hell are you doing? are you mad? why don't you take it to the dealer?" The Turkish do not understand DIY in any form - anyone who undertakes DIY is either crazy or poor or both. OK, not a particularly good reason this one, but come out and try it one time!

3) Parts. Sourcing parts at reasonable prices can be a bit of a nightmare in Turkey. I'm after a full service - all fluids etc. etc. and am not sure what else will turn up. Brake pads (GOLD brand) for example, are 65Euros a pair (yes, 65 Euros!). Sourcing is as fraught with danger as choosing the right mechanic! It is quite possible to ask for the right stuff and be fobbed off with the wrong stuff or sold it at four, five times the correct price (being a foreigner, you may as well walk around with a neon sign saying "rip me off"). As an example, a mate went to the local dealer for a bolt, it wasn't in stock. " come back in 6-8 weeks please sir"... Another time, I went to three bike shops and two hardware stores looking to replace the tank bolt nut (I dropped the original one and it went down a drain -see point 1). Sale on return is not an option here either, so you should only buy what you know you're going to need.


You will find it difficult to imagine the horror stories I've heard and if I told you some of the schoolboy error stuff you can expect from most of the "professionals" here (in all industries), you would probably think I was making it up.

As this is the first major service the bike has had in my possession, I'm just trying to ensure it is done properly. I do not have the 1st hand experience to trust myself (I can do/have done most parts of a service, but not all), nor the on-hand support if things go wrong, nor do I have the tools, access to tools or space to do it myself.

Trade testing is not something I do by habit, but as mentioned previously things are different in Turkey!! If anyone wants to come out and give three of us a "how to service your 1150 or 1200 and then fix everything that is likely to go wrong on it" course, we'd be only too happy to receive you here in glorious Turkey!

You`re just making excuses now.

Also worrying about too many whatevers and what ifs.

If everywhere is so expensive and so dodgy then don`t use them.

Given the circumstances and situation you`ve described, that`s EXACTLY the reason for doing the work yourself.

The service info needed if you don`t own a manual (and if you don`t own one,why not?) is on the Internet generally or searchable and findable on this site.

Why not pick up the phone or go on the Internet and get a service kit sent to you....even from one of the UK Independent suppliers..likewise pads if needed.

If some catastrophe ever did occur then that`s the time to ask about and go to a recommended garage/service guy.

 

[Stewart H]

You`re just making excuses now.

Also worrying about too many whatevers and what ifs.

If everywhere is so expensive and so dodgy then don`t use them.

Given the circumstances and situation you`ve described, that`s EXACTLY the reason for doing the work yourself.

The service info needed if you don`t own a manual (and if you don`t own one,why not?) is on the Internet generally or searchable and findable on this site.

Why not pick up the phone or go on the Internet and get a service kit sent to you....even from one of the UK Independent suppliers..likewise pads if needed.

If some catastrophe ever did occur then that`s the time to ask about and go to a recommended garage/service guy.

The needed tools are cheap enough, go for it, its never more than one rocker cover and the front cover, not a lot even on the street, read up, we are here for support

 

[celcius]

L, which shop are you taking it to? Or do you know the name of the guy?
There are not a lot of shops which do BMW here. I can ask around to some of my other BMW riding friends, i am sure at least one of them had his bike serviced there at one time or another.

 

[Steve the Kiwi]

The needed tools are cheap enough, go for it, its never more than one rocker cover and the front cover, not a lot even on the street, read up, we are here for support

Exactly!
My Hall sensor died and i said to my GF "damn that's going to cost 300+ euro." I fixed it myself with a reconditioned Hall sensor & steptoe's guide in hand for 75 euro. My GF's response was " good on you, You should buy yourself some more tools" aaar...Bless her! (small tear in the eye that day)

I didn't want to tell her that you could have done it all with the contents of BMW toolkit under the seat As much as we'd like Snap On's finest, 50-100 euros would get most of the tools you'd need! ( my example above shows it won't take long for your "investment" to get returns!

As long you know the difference between a nut and a bolt you'll be fine and most service jobs are very simple once you've done them. SO I have to agree with Tarka L..... You've made a list of excuses not reasons..... Just do the service once and if you find it to much then fine... but that won't happen

 

[MikeP]

What an interesting thread.

Distrust or concern about the qualities of a mechanic in Turkey is seen as an attack upon the the professionalism of all 'artisans' everywhere.

 

[L]

Celcius, if you can ask around for some recommendations I'd really appreciate it... I don't know what your experience is, but in mine, the typical Turk will blindly believe whatever the "expert" says - even if it is rubbish, wrong or a lie. Recommendations are based on personal relationships rather than quality of work - i.e. "he's a nice bloke, therefore he does a good job..." In my experience, nice blokes are certainly able to feck things up!.

For example, when I asked our decorators for the left over paint when they decorated our house, I was told "it is difficult to apply". My in-laws thought it completely reasonable thing for him to say because they don't know better.

Please see my new thread about service items required...

 

[MattW]

What an interesting thread.

Distrust or concern about the qualities of a mechanic in Turkey is seen as an attack upon the the professionalism of all 'artisans' everywhere.

Indeed.

It may be an unpalatable truth to the vast majority of honest tradesmen, but rip-off merchants exist. Being a stranger in a foreign land unfortunately increases the likelihood of a less than honest trader taking you for a ride - after all you aren't likely to affect his ongoing business - you'll have disappeared into the sunset. Can any of us honestly say that we haven't been subjected to a 'tourist rip-off'? - Even the worldly wise globetrotters on here were young and naive once...

So, while 'L' might have expressed his concerns better, I think they are valid nonetheless and to get all uppity and suggest that it is an affront to question the reputation of any 'brother tradesman' is bollox.

That said, I agree with the DIY thing - it takes very few tools to carry out basic servicing and if you are concerned about the possible quality of tradesmen then it's an obvious solution.

 

[celcius]

Manual work has always been very cheap in Turkey, that's why we Turks never bother to fix anything ourselves. Because that's what we have seen from our parents and grandparents, and so on. If something is broken, you call for someone to fix it or take it to the shop yourself. So, if your are fixing something yourself; a) You are too poor to afford someone to do it for you, b) It is a very very veeerrrrrryyyyy minor job ( scale of difficulty/complexity: changing a bulb or similar, the mechanic would be offended being called for it. ) c) You are too far from anywhere for someone to come and sort it out for you.

Here is something to put things into perspective for you; a buddy of mine had a problem with the HID kit in his 1150GS, the culprit was found to be faulty ballast. He didn’t like the idea of having the ballast opened up and fixed/soldered, so he decided to take it all out and go back to the original set up using H1 bulbs etc.
What should normally be a rather straightforward job turned up to be a bit of a headache. Now, apparently the first guy who did the set-up and routing years ago did a dog’s breakfast of a job; the cables and connectors were all in a mess. After my friend decided to have all of it taken out, the mechanic in the shop had to spend about an hour and a half, meticulously splitting the cables, re-routing the wires, cutting the sloppy soldered old connectors, connecting new ones and putting it all back together. Total cost?… An hour and a half worth of labor (and not just hammering away, really intricate work; thanks to the dork that did the HID install in the first place!!)?… the labor cost was 8 GBP. I am sure it would cost more over there in U.K

That’s why people never fix things themselves over here, especially in the cities.

DIY is a big thing out in the other parts of the world but the concept never really took off here. We have all the DIY stores and huge outlet centers, yet people will just go there to buy the stuff and then get someone to fix/install it for them again.

I know this makes no sense to most of you guys reading, honestly it sure don't make any sense to me too, but trust me; you will pretty much find the same attitude in most Mediterranean (especially Greece, Italy, Southern Spain) and nearly all Middle-Eastern countries. It’s due to many deep-rooted historical and sociological reasons. In this part of the world except the rural areas, any form of manual work has and will always be seen as the curse of the poor & uneducated. That’s the way it is. It’s just a different culture and a different mind-set. Concept of manual work performed as a hobby in the weekends is even more alien to these parts.

Anyway; L, write the name of the shop or the mechanic here, the one you are planning to take your bike to; maybe I already had some work done by him. If not me, I will try to find a friend or an acquaintance that had some work done there, as I said; not a lot of shops do BMW here.

 

[L]

Olkan Bey, in Resitpasa. Do you know him Celcius?

If you ever fancy a beer with a Brit (maybe two), give me a shout.

Email: e l p (at) e m c (dot) e u (dot) com

 

[celcius]

No, i don't know him myself. Never had any work done by him but after a bit of asking around i see he is amongst a few BMW-exclusive mechanics highly praised amongst the local tossers.

Another one is Saffet Ilbasan, he is also well-known by the local BMW riders. He used to work in the local official BMW distributor/service in Istanbul until he opened his own shop a couple of years ago. As he worked in the local BMW service he received his training in Germany and was certified by BMW. He is also highly praised. Should you decide to give him a call, his number is: (0) 212 323 2305
I have friends who have had some work done by him and they are quite happy. Should you decide to go to him: 1) Try and go in a weekday, apparently his place is quite packed on weekends when every other tosser is waiting to get his bike serviced. 2) Try to get Saffet himself to work on your bike and not one of his fellow mechanics, as the place is quite popular he can't do every bike himself and let's the fellow mechanics take up some of the slack. 3) Bear in mind that since he is the only official BMW trained/certified freelance mechanic out there, he can be a bit pricey than the average shop next door, but surely not as much as the BMW themselves.

Both Saffet and Olkan only deal in BMWs so whichever you go for in the end, they will know what they will be doing. Hope this helps.

Oh, a pint or two with a fellow biker is always something to look forward to. Will send an e-mail. Maybe we can squeeze in a small ride too.

 

[sockpuppet]

TBH I've never "tested" a mechanic.

Then again I service my own car/bike so don't have to and I also know it well enough so I'd be able to tell if someone had been all over it etc.

 

[D6]

No, i don't know him myself. Never had any work done by him but after a bit of asking around i see he is amongst a few BMW-exclusive mechanics highly praised amongst the local tossers.

Another one is Saffet Ilbasan, he is also well-known by the local BMW riders. He used to work in the local official BMW distributor/service in Istanbul until he opened his own shop a couple of years ago. As he worked in the local BMW service he received his training in Germany and was certified by BMW. He is also highly praised. Should you decide to give him a call, his number is: (0) 212 323 2305
I have friends who have had some work done by him and they are quite happy. Should you decide to go to him: 1) Try and go in a weekday, apparently his place is quite packed on weekends when every other tosser is waiting to get his bike serviced. 2) Try to get Saffet himself to work on your bike and not one of his fellow mechanics, as the place is quite popular he can't do every bike himself and let's the fellow mechanics take up some of the slack. 3) Bear in mind that since he is the only official BMW trained/certified freelance mechanic out there, he can be a bit pricey than the average shop next door, but surely not as much as the BMW themselves.

Both Saffet and Olkan only deal in BMWs so whichever you go for in the end, they will know what they will be doing. Hope this helps.

Oh, a pint or two with a fellow biker is always something to look forward to. Will send an e-mail. Maybe we can squeeze in a small ride too.

you see?
the best result is obtained by asking customers etc
not puttin bits of yellow paint on everything

 

[ExpatinIstanbul]

Those here who suggest L is being cheeky in asking for a means of checking have no idea of what it's like here. It's all but impossible to find someone capable of doing the job they say they will. Turkey, you see, is a country where the expression "customer service" is an oxymoron. It's true what celcius says about manual labour being seen as something to look down on, but also there's a problem of this being a seller's society, rather than a buyer's. As a customer you are expected to shut up and and take what you're given, and for fcuk's sake don't complain or you'll end up in an unwinnable shouting match with someone who'll go to their grave insisting that black is in fact white, if it means winning an argument.

Today I ordered a new copy of Vista Ultimate. I specified, very clearly, that I wanted an original, boxed and sealed, brand new copy. What was sent was an already opened copy, that was supposed to have been supplied with a PC. When I complained I got the stock answer....."it's good enough". A friend of mine had to call a plumber to fix a leaking combi boiler. He had to call the plumber again a couple of days later to fix the same leak in the same boiler. And again a few days later.....etc etc.

But the icing on the cake is:
A couple of years back I was lucky enough to rent a house with a small pool. Now, the pool was sinking into the ground on one corner so I called the owner to let him know. he came with a pool "specialist" who declared that the original work was done badly (three years previously) and the pool would have to be rebuilt, at vast cost i should add. Without even batting an eyelid, and with not a hit of shame he then explained that he was the original contractor. What did the owner do? He shrugged his shoulders in the Turkish manner of acceptance of fate.

There's an expression here: Burasi Turkiye. Roughly translated it means "this is Turkey", meaning that nothing good is expected.

Long story short (bit late perhaps) L is quite right to be suspicious, all foreigners here are, unfortunately.

 

[t'other dave]

I see your point about foreign country workmanship people have differant standards/expectaitions. I have been tested by customers before apart from obvious changes eg filter I like to put everything back as I found it, eg line up their mark on the sump nut/sump, gives a giggle.
As for the comment about black oil well it doesn't take long to turn black after a change in some engines if cheap oils been used in the past (especially diesels) unless you use flush before dropping the old oil.

 

[celcius]

Those here who suggest L is being cheeky in asking for a means of checking have no idea of what it's like here. It's all but impossible to find someone capable of doing the job they say they will. Turkey, you see, is a country where the expression "customer service" is an oxymoron. It's true what celcius says about manual labour being seen as something to look down on, but also there's a problem of this being a seller's society, rather than a buyer's. As a customer you are expected to shut up and and take what you're given, and for fcuk's sake don't complain or you'll end up in an unwinnable shouting match with someone who'll go to their grave insisting that black is in fact white, if it means winning an argument.

Today I ordered a new copy of Vista Ultimate. I specified, very clearly, that I wanted an original, boxed and sealed, brand new copy. What was sent was an already opened copy, that was supposed to have been supplied with a PC. When I complained I got the stock answer....."it's good enough". A friend of mine had to call a plumber to fix a leaking combi boiler. He had to call the plumber again a couple of days later to fix the same leak in the same boiler. And again a few days later.....etc etc.

But the icing on the cake is:
A couple of years back I was lucky enough to rent a house with a small pool. Now, the pool was sinking into the ground on one corner so I called the owner to let him know. he came with a pool "specialist" who declared that the original work was done badly (three years previously) and the pool would have to be rebuilt, at vast cost i should add. Without even batting an eyelid, and with not a hit of shame he then explained that he was the original contractor. What did the owner do? He shrugged his shoulders in the Turkish manner of acceptance of fate.

There's an expression here: Burasi Turkiye. Roughly translated it means "this is Turkey", meaning that nothing good is expected.

Long story short (bit late perhaps) L is quite right to be suspicious, all foreigners here are, unfortunately.

A couple of reasons why the above are true:
1- Not a great deal of education & training available for technical/manual work. Most electricians/mechanics/technicians/plumbers etc. come from a poor family and they are given as an 'apprentice' to a mechanic from a fairly young age. They are not properly trained/certified/schooled, they just learn it 'in the trade'. What they miss in proper training, they make up for it by watching their masters and gainin on-hand experience. This takes many many years and continues even when they open their own shops, naturally 'experience' is the sum of a persons past mistakes albeit at the customers cost
2- Most of these people are self-employed so they don't realy give a s*it about customers service and possible negative feedback/complaint. After all they are their own employers so there is no one to warn/punish them for thier shortcomings at their work.
3- Legal due-process for small trade disagreements and customer complaints is pretty cumbersome here in Turkey, so they know that even if a customer is is pissed off enough to sue them, the case will drag on for at least a couple of years and the final verdict and penalty/settlement will be a pretty small sum, if the complaining party does not get fed up and just drops the case during all that time.
4- Turkish mentality does not cope with the notion of a 'mistake' well. It is regarded as a personal inadequacy, a personal failure, a lack of capacity of that person. Mistakes can happen everywhere, we are all humans after all, but because people take it too personally they will go as far as they can before they finally yield and accept it's their fault. Obviously speaking the language and being rather 'articulate' in Turkish can go a long way in winning arguements in such cases.
5- Tourists and foreigners are always taken as more 'gullable', but this is not specific to Turkey, i have seen and witnessed the same mind-set every where; in U.K, in Italy, in U.S.A, in France and so on. If you are a foreigner you have to be sharp and on your game whereever you are. It seems there is a general human tendency coded into our DNA to believe if a person is not speaking your language he is not as wise and intelligent as you.

Anyway; when in Rome, do as the Romans do, and don't hesitate to ask around. I am always humbled by the very universal human quality to go out of our own ways when another person (especially o foreigner) sincerely and honestly ask for help/directions/advice/reccomendations. The same is true everywhere; if you go on your own way as a foreigner people won't even stick out a finger for you, but if you are humble enough to stop and ask sincerely, they will open up.

 

[ExpatinIstanbul]

I am humble, as humble as an incredibly handsome, rich and hugely intelligent person can be. I always humbly tell my servants what to do and humbly whip them when they displease me.

As for speaking the language, well I speak it very well....for example: Turkce Bilmiyorum. Bir bira lutfen. Marlboro Lights lutfen.

I hope I don't appear as a racist, I don't mean to be mean.