I have my first observed ride/assessment on Sunday

....I would have thought though to ride smoothly you shouldn't be jamming on the brakes as you approach every bend,surely that just means you've consistantly got your acceleration sense wrong.:nenau........



Yes I agree, and I wouldn't be 'jamming on brakes' at every bend.

Police driving schools have lots of kitchy sayings ('In like a Lamb, out like a Lion', 'Where's there's one there may be two' ... etc) and one of the phrases they use is 'Ease and Squeeze'. Ease and squeeze is week one of a three week course where the instructor pretty much drives the car from the passenger seat like a conductor in an orchestra. You're at the controls but he's (she's !) teaching you acceleration sense. 'Ease ... ease .... ease ........ now squeeze ... squeeze ..... ' and so on.
Probably one of the eureka moments for me on my first car courses is how long I spent OFF the gas. It almost turns most (boot - brake) driving styles on their head.

My bike instructor 'Gary' (the one with smoke coming out of his ears at my poncey style!) also gave me a bit of a Eureka moment. On identical bikes I was having to regularly brake for a corner where he was not. I asked him why this was happening.
He drew me a sort of graph of acceleration and coming off the gas. So think of a typical X Y axis graph with speed on the Y axis (up and down!) and distance on the x axis (along the bottom!). The graph starts as we come out of a bend. His spike of vertical speed over distance was much more violent for want of a better word, than mine. My spike took longer to get to the same speed. So his spike rose rapidly like a church spire then slowly came down, mine rose like a pyramid and then slowly came down. So that in turn means that he's OFF the gas and 'floating' earlier than me. That in turn means that we're reaching our bends at ever so slightly different speeds.
The bottom line in the difference between the two of us, was that he drove out the bend harder than me, but then shut off earlier than me. I wasn't as quick out, but to keep up, I was on the gas for longer (so I'd end up having to brake).

That eureka moment, has pretty much stuck with me. So my style (and pretty much every trained riders style) would be this hard out, easy in style (as Micky would call it). It's still very quick, but it's very smooth because it delivers a style that sees all the pace in a ride being achieved by rapid acceleration followed by float, rather than holding speed and then hard braking.

The word 'float' is something I use a lot on the rapid days. (It's the same as 'ease'). So the idea of floating into that corner with nice settled suspension and then spanking it out the corner like the x y graph.

Ricardo writes; ...slowing in the gear you're in, then when the speed is right taking a lower gear is acceleration sense...

So picture yourself spanking your bike in those wonderful welsh roads around Llandovery! It could be that as you approach that wonderful sweeping bend from 90mph you adjust your right hand and bring that speed down with a shut throttle. As you're doing that and as your speed is falling you've got choices as to when you might take that lower gear to marry with your falling speed. The simplest scenario would be one gear, and like the car turning left scenario. Off ... off .... off ... off .... the gas and then when it feels right, the limit point is opening up the bike is nice and settled ...... NOW!! .... take that gear and accelerate through the bend.

What about if you need to take two gears or even three ?! Choices choices! and this is where coaching courses have their merits (rather than an internet discussion :D). You could take a gear ......... (where the speed is appropriate) ..... take a gear ...... (speed appropriate) ........ take a gear ........... and ..... DRIVE through the corner!
Have you 'slowed down on the gear box'? No, you've slowed down on a shut throttle, but during that process, you've taken a couple of intermediate gears that were appropriate to the speed.

Would a block change be ugly and uncouth?!

Depends on how silky the silk worm you are!! One of the joys of a Gixxer thou, or a 'Blade is their in line four smoothness. A wonderful gear change on those bikes is a sustained throttle: You're off the gas, you're floating into your bend and you haven't take a gear yet. You're in 5th. Like the above scenarios you loose your pace on a shut throttle, and joy of joys .... You've judged it to perfection and don't need to brake. When the time is right, you dip your clutch, you squeeze on some gas (clutch in), raise the revs and snick two gears at once. With the gas still on, you let the clutch out and you've set the revs for that lower gear and DRIVE out the corner.
If you get that right Johno, it is better than sex!!

What about braking and changing - moto gp style? Nothing wrong with that at all in my book. If I'm really spanking it and coming into, say a bend with all the sharp deviation markings (the 'Yes Gary, sorry Gary' scenario), do I have to brake ..... come off brakes .... take my gear(s) or can I over lap them?
Speed will play it's part here, but I quite often shut the gas ....... arrive at the corner ..... brake firmly ..... and whilst I'm braking ..... gear (blip) .... gear (blip) ..... off brakes ..... just take a split second to settle the suspension ..... and then DRIVE ..........

Is that out of system? No ..... I'm still braking first, I'm getting the speed I want, and then I'm selecting the appropriate gear having scrubbed the speed off.


The sin, and the 'out of system' would be doing any of those bends described above on a shut throttle, taking gears and then ..... Oh Fuck ... i'm still too quick and now I've got to brake. Should have braked first!




So a lot of it is your brain processing what it sees and making decisions. (and this of course is where time in the saddle and experience will float to the surface). What are you going to de above Johno? Very deliberately make the decision to get up to it and brake like Magnets 30mph limit scenario? Or the moment it comes into view are you going to shut the gas and float towards it on acceleration sense and then make your decision .... :nenau
 
I don't know how you find the time for your long post's , but i'am glad you do, great read, cheers,:beerjug:
 
Lampost spacings & speed limit signs on entrance to side roads can help. And remembering what the last speed limit sign was:D

I've not heard that lamppost spacing indicates the speed limit. Can you elaborate please someone
 
I've not heard that lamppost spacing indicates the speed limit. Can you elaborate please someone

Restricted roads (30mph) have certain lamp posts spacings, I think from memory they are a maximum of 200yrds apart? So when on a country road with national speed limit if you see a cluster of lamp posts in the distance you might be approaching a restricted road, or maybe a roundabout/junction or other hazard?
 
Restricted roads (30mph) have certain lamp posts spacings, I think from memory they are a maximum of 200yrds apart? So when on a country road with national speed limit if you see a cluster of lamp posts in the distance you might be approaching a restricted road, or maybe a roundabout/junction or other hazard?

Tis true, I think...... can`t remember the exact figures though, sorry
 
I'm really enjoying how this thread has generated so much information. I'm learning loads from it.
 
Great explanation Giles.:thumb
When I ride I tend not to brake much at all unless I've fucked it up a bit, which we all do. I don't drop gears with engine screaming to take off speed, but do probably drop 1 gear just to scrub off a little. Now, from what you just said, and knowing how I ride, I can see I do need to power out of the bend harder then come off the throttle a little earlier. I'll look forward to putting it to the test.

What you are talking about here is the sort of training I am after, more aimed at the actual skills of control/positioning of the bike rather than
being told I was doing 75 on the motorway and I'm a naughty boy and when leaving it indicated at the 200yd mark instead of the 300yd despite the fact the traffic was queued back doing 30mph:blast.The impression I got was that the type of training I'm looking for isn't what IAM provides would that be correct?
 
A great load of good info coming on this thread.
Concentrating on the last couple of posts by Giles, really good and clearly explained info, but no mention of needing a little bit of positive throttle while actually in the bend. This does two things, the first is keeping the bike at a constant speed, and the second coming from the first, keeps the bike settled during the cornering.
If one keeps the throttle constant, then the bike will slow down, due to the extra forces involved with cornering, plus the reduced rolling radius of the wheels, due to the bike being lent over. This can cause the bike to go 'wishy washy' ( there must be a good technical term) and tend to run wide.

Two of the mantras from our chief instructor (ex Plod) are 'eyes up' and 'positive throttle'
 
Great explanation Giles.:thumb
The impression I got was that the type of training I'm looking for isn't what IAM provides would that be correct?

Yes and no, depending upon the observer. You may get some of what Giles has talked about, but if you want to guarantee that depth of knowledge and explanation, you may need to pay for it :eek:. Perhaps IAM is a good starter and then you can develop further with some paid-for advanced tuition. This would help you to get the best out of your money. I hear Rapid Training are rather good :augie:augie
 
A great load of good info coming on this thread.
Concentrating on the last couple of posts by Giles, really good and clearly explained info, but no mention of needing a little bit of positive throttle while actually in the bend. This does two things, the first is keeping the bike at a constant speed, and the second coming from the first, keeps the bike settled during the cornering.
If one keeps the throttle constant, then the bike will slow down, due to the extra forces involved with cornering, plus the reduced rolling radius of the wheels, due to the bike being lent over. This can cause the bike to go 'wishy washy' ( there must be a good technical term) and tend to run wide.

Two of the mantras from our chief instructor (ex Plod) are 'eyes up' and 'positive throttle'

Re: bit of positive throttle, I think it is mentioned, read it again.
 
I'm really enjoying how this thread has generated so much information. I'm learning loads from it.

Ditto :thumb2

I've just got back from a 4hr ride with Giles' words and the system very firmly in my mind. Made for a completely stress free and smooth ride, and very little time with feet on tarmac.

Liked it so much I've just signed up to do IAM with my local group.

Only problem I found was it made it feel like I was going slower....when I definitely wasn't :augie Changed settings on my Nav V so I can mph showing in BIG numbers from now on :D
 
Re: bit of positive throttle, I think it is mentioned, read it again.

Yes and no:), Giles mentions coming in too fast, and going around with a closed throttle, and also getting on the gas on the way out, but as I read it, didn't mention a little bit of gas while in the corner to keep the bike balanced.

But I stand to be corrected:comfort
 
DRIVE ......

Drive through the bend. Some books (things like 'twist of the wrist') refer to 'cracking open the throttle as soon as possible'. Cracking as in a tiny crack of light.

So, yeah it's a bit boy racer talk, it's all a bit one piece leathers and knee sliders, but getting on the gas as early as you can on your corner entry will see your bike behave well. Then you open up that throttle and drive the bike through the bend. How hard do you drive it? How big are your balls :D

Off on a bit of a tangent ..... but one of the reasons that you'll here people talk about suspension being worth so much BHP, is because of the above. Good suspension gives you a beautifully settled bike. A beautifully settled bike (corner entry on that bumpy back b road) gives you the ability to 'crack open the throttle as soon as possible' and then wind it on. Now I don't want to bang on about KTM1190R's ..... (:D), but that's why it's a good back b road hooner - 'cos it's got long good quality suspension, and a 21'' front wheel, so it has that ability to get on the power early, because it can soak stuff up and allow you to get on the gas.

The opposite of that would be a race rep bike thats hard and skittish on those back b roads. Trying to get on the gas and drive is hard work 'cos the bike is still bumping about in the corner and it's not ready for drive yet.

The other thing you'll hear / see in the driving courses is this idea of 'letting the bike/ car settle'. So when we talk about the system, the idea of braking, then off the brakes, take a gear and drive ...... it's a nice touch to have just a second delay between off brakes and .... gear/ drive.

So in the car world (where we tend not to overlap our brakes and gears) we'd Brake ........ off brakes ... (second pause here and let it settle..) then gear .. drive. On your bike you may Brake .... brake .. brake .. and as you come off the brakes, just give it a split second to recover. Let those front forks settle, then ..... (gear if you need it) .. DRIVE ....
If we were moto gp'ing our brakes and gears together with a little blip of the gas, again, no difference; brake ... brake ... brake .... (whilst we're gear/blip .... gear/blip) and then off brakes ..... let it settle for just a second, and then drive.

So ..... that may mean, that when you assess your bend, and when you decide 'I'm going to brake for this', where are you going to come off your brakes?? Well I might deliberately brake just a little bit more than I need, because I'm going to come off them, and then let the bike settle. That 'settle' might 'cost' five? six? ten? yards or so. So in effect I'm braking for a point five or ten yards before the corner, in order to come off, settle (by which time I actually arrive at the corner) and now ...DRIVE ....
We're only talking a few yards, but it's little touches like that make you safer, systemised, smoother and of course quicker.

:thumb2
 
Brilliant Giles :thumby::thumby: I muddled through a standard motorbike course in 1993, staying alive was my main concern.. the finer points of bike riding didn't concern me then. your write up makes perfect sense and you have a great writing style.. I'm still shite on a bike but now I know why I'm shite :aidan
 
Wow, who knew this forum could actually provide interesting, relevant, and coherent information :D

Thanks for taking the time to write this Giles :beerjug: .

RBW.
 
I went out for a decent ride today trying to be self critical and work on all the skills I've learnt over the last few months. My observer has offered to take me out for another ride before my test as well.
 


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