I hope it's just a flat battery

[IanPorter]

went to set off for work this morning and the bike wouldn't start

clock reset and the usual chatter from the starter relay suggesting a flat battery and when I got it on charge it's certainly down,

I'm just a bit paranoid as I had to have a new (well second-hand) starter last June and it's been a bit sluggish to turn over first thing in the morning over winter.

I've put the slow turn over down to thick oil on cold day and wasn't too worried about it.

I had to borrow the wifes cage to get me to work and now I'm here I'm imagining all sorts of things that could be wrong with the bike.

I am right about the bike being sluggish turning over in cold weather aren't I, please say yes

 

[(RIP) Bobble]

Cold affects everything, including the battery.. first thing to do though is charge your battery, if the bike starts normally then you know it's not the starter, if it's still slow get the starter checked out. I took my starter to a local car starter rebuilder, he stripped it, cleaned, re-greased, changed a bush and gave it a full going over, then charged me a tenner

 

[Splat]

Mine didn't start this weekend, and after a tip in this site, it turned out to be a loose connection on the earth pole of the battery (at least, I hope that's what it was).

does your starter do anything? mine only said a very quiet 'tak'...

 

[IanPorter]

it was a brand new BMW battery when the starter was replaced and has always been in tip top condition whenever I've checked it

I left the bike outside all last week and I'm just hoping it's something daft like I had turned the key too far when I put the steering lock on and I've left the parking light on.

the started was allegedly a recon unit but as I didn't source it or see it I'm not 100% sure it was

 

[IanPorter]

Mine didn't start this weekend, and after a tip in this site, it turned out to be a loose connection on the earth pole of the battery (at least, I hope that's what it was).

does your starter do anything? mine only said a very quiet 'tak'...

it turned over slowly a couple of times then reset the clock and the relay stated chattering

which is similar to what it did when the last starter was on it's way out

 

[cookie]

it turned over slowly a couple of times then reset the clock and the relay stated chattering

which is similar to what it did when the last starter was on it's way out

the relay chatters when the starter doesn't get enough juice. the most common causes of that IME are a fecked battery or, less likely, a malfunctioning charging system, although it is occasionally down to a loose connection to the starter.

 

[Keith Chapman]

Ian, how old is your second hand starter? It may be that the magnets are working loose and not allowing the armature to spin freely. Early starters were prone to loose magnets.

 

[IanPorter]

Ian, how old is your second hand starter? It may be that the magnets are working loose and not allowing the armature to spin freely. Early starters were prone to loose magnets.

no idea, it was supplied direct to the dealer from motorworks so I never saw it,

it's starting OK now it's got some charge in it but it's still sluggish to turn over, I'll see what it's like when it's fully charged

 

[davegs]

it turned over slowly a couple of times then reset the clock and the relay stated chattering

which is similar to what it did when the last starter was on it's way out

Is it charging? check the belt is not slack.

 

[zdaveuk]

i had a similar problem 6 months after fitting a second hand starter motor
fitted a new one and charged the battery and no prblems now

dont despair I bought one of these and although it has only been on the bike a few months I have had no problems starting it even on frosty mornings
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Anlasser-BMW-Motorrad-R850-R1100-R1150-R1200-NEU-/190501189733?pt=Motorrad_Kraftradteile&hash=item2c5ac17865#ht_1778wt_905

 

[Pauly S]

perhaps you need a battery monitor

it will tell you when you switch the ignition on , how flat or charged your battery is.
it will also tell you how well the alternator is working.
it will also tell you when the alternator packs up mid flight.
Some fella on here sells them, really easy to fit too apperently.

 

[IanPorter]

I bought one of these and although it has only been on the bike a few months I have had no problems starting it even on frosty mornings
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Anlasser-BMW-Motorrad-R850-R1100-R1150-R1200-NEU-/190501189733?pt=Motorrad_Kraftradteile&hash=item2c5ac17865#ht_1778wt_905

thanks for that, I may be making a purchase soon

it looks like it could be the starter again as it's still sluggish with a full charge.

the battery is charging just fine once it running

 

[stolzy]

thanks for that, I may be making a purchase soon

it looks like it could be the starter again as it's still sluggish with a full charge.

the battery is charging just fine once it running

Maybe the battery is shot? The relay chattering is because the starter's not getting enough amps.

Just because the battery can be charged doesn't mean it still has enough reserve to turn the engine.

 

[IanPorter]

what would people expect the voltage drop to be when cranking the engine over?

with ignition on I'm getting 12.7v, while cranking over it drops to 9v and then once running sits at 14.4v

does that sound normal? (obviously it's charging OK once running)

 

[stolzy]

what would people expect the voltage drop to be when cranking the engine over?

with ignition on I'm getting 12.7v, while cranking over it drops to 9v and then once running sits at 14.4v

does that sound normal? (obviously it's charging OK once running)

I'm about as far from an expert as you're likely to find, but 12.7v sounds low to me. I guess 14.4v is the voltage produced by the alternator

Have you tried jump starting from another battery - it might eliminate the starter as the source of the problem.

Doubtless someone who knows what they are talking about will be along directly.

 

[cookie]

the 1150 used to fault and disable the ABS if the battery dropped below 10.4v at start IIRC.

the 1200 definitely records an undervoltage, but i don't know what the threshold is.

so 9v is way too low IMO.

 

[IanPorter]

just been back out and taken new reading as those above were taken from the accessory socket

I've taken readings from both sides of the starter solenoid and it's

13.4 volts ignition off,
12.8 volts ignition on
10.8 volts cranking over

which sound a bit better to me

and the stupid thing seems fine now it's been on charge for over 24 hours

 

[littleredrooster]

just been back out and taken new reading as those above were taken from the accessory socket

I've taken readings from both sides of the starter solenoid and it's

13.4 volts ignition off,
12.8 volts ignition on
10.8 volts cranking over

which sound a bit better to me

and the stupid thing seems fine now it's been on charge for over 24 hours

Mmm..me thinks a faulty measuring device.

It can only have 13.2v static (6 cells of 2.2v=13.2) theoretically. In practice this is usually nearer 12.8-13.0v because of internal resistance.

However 10.8v cranking is fine, 9v is borderline.

 

[DollyRocket]

hat would people expect the voltage drop to be when cranking the engine over?

with ignition on I'm getting 12.7v, while cranking over it drops to 9v and then once running sits at 14.4v

does that sound normal? (obviously it's charging OK once running)

14.4V Is peak bulk charge setpoint,
13.8V Is float charge (setpoint after bulk charge) or trickle setpoint.
Quiescent battery setpoint should be 12.8V i.e., battery voltage with nothing connected to it (ie. no drain)
10.8V is lower operating threshold, When drawing max rated cranking current the battery in a good state of charge should be in excess of 11.0V.


From the voltages you have given, it sounds like the battery capacity is reduced (if it is a wet cell then it is a sign that the electrolyte is low or not concentrated enough). For a Gel Cell, it could be that the capacity is down due to not working the battery enough - possibly sulphating but you ca normally tell after a few discharge/charge cycles.


The rule of thumb is - Use'em or Lose'em. If you don't exersize the battery you will reduce the capacity. Permanently leaving it on float charge (trickle chargers) does not improve a battery capacity, just prevents it from self discharging.