Just a cautionary note!

[Ross]

Just a cautionary note!

Not wanting to stir things up, but reading the comments about dealers a thought came to mind. It’s a wonderful thing this Internet you can communicate with many people over many miles all at the push of a button. Your words are whisked into hyperspace and are there for all to see. You can share your knowledge, experience, adventures etc both good and bad. People, including the dealers can then take what you say and use it as they intrepid it. We’ve all done well out of the various dealers around the country with the free advertising and good words about the club and the various raffle prizes donated. However that can all be lost if we are seen as a bunch of moaners and general slaggersoffas. I don’t work at a dealership or even in the trade but I have worked in the retail sector and so have a little experience to draw on. The dealers generally will have their customer’s satisfaction at heart because you are their lifeline. They need your custom to survive, make a profit, pay the bills and then with what’s left buy in new lines of goodies etc to temp you back to continue the cycle. If things don’t go according to plan and mistakes are made (we are all human after all ) then you and the dealer may fall out. How far this goes is up to you and the dealer. If you are unhappy with the service or the product you can sort it out with the dealer, the manufacturer, trading standards, the courts etc till all parties have had their pound of flesh and feel happy. Yes you can go elsewhere to spend you cash and I do the same, after all we all like to get value for money and not be ripped-off, it’s called shopping around. The dealers know and accept this, its called competition. But my point is this, the dealers whoever they are, franchise, independent, spares and accessory etc they are in away our lifeline as well – no dealer, no service, no spares, no bike, no club and no fun!

 

[MikeO]

And your point is....??


MikeO

 

[Ross]

Hi Mike,

My point is this-

By slagging-off the dealers over the web like has happened
( justified or not ) we are not doing anybody any favours. We will get it thrown back in our faces when a club event is organised and we approach the dealers for help, donations, loan of equipment etc.

 

[MikeO]

Ross,

all very well, but exactly what course of action are you advocating?
This forum has been an excellent resource for me and others to decide, on personal experience of its members, what dealer, accessory, extra or even bike to buy. For me, that is one of the main strengths of the BB. If you are suggesting that we in some way kowtow to a dealer and ignore the fact that he may not be doing what his customers wants, in order to hopefully gain some benefit from him at some time in the future - surely this is in itself counter productive. A bad dealer will remain a bad dealer if his customers let him.
A customer who complains is the dealer's friend, he gives the dealer the opportunity to put things right. If he fails to do so, then he may, quite rightly, expect to get his conduct published here for public scrutiny.
This is an open forum - that means dealers can read what is said about them . It also means they are free to reply. I for one, would not like to alter any aspect of this free opportunity for dialogue. So there.


MikeO

ps Come on Bakes. Tell me how difficult it is for the small businessman Anyone fancy a meet in the chat room at 9ish?

 

[Steve]

Anyone fancy a meet in the chat room at 9ish?

Can't see why not.

 

[Dutchman]

Surely it's up to the dealers to raise their game in order to satisfy the customer & thereby avoid adverse publicity.......not the customers refraining from their right to free speech?

 

[Deadskin]

Surely it's up to the dealers to raise their game in order to satisfy the customer & thereby avoid adverse publicity.......not the customers refraining from their right to free speech?

Exactly

 

[MickL]

I have "slagged off" a dealer in the past on here and have also praised another
Surely the point of this BB is to keep other members of the club informed as to our experiences both good and bad and if the dealers/BMW choose to read this hopefully they can take away the constructive criticism and raise their game thereby keeping all of us happy

 

[Bilks]

The boot is firmly on the other foot now.....


Over many years , many people have had , poor, unscrupulous,

and shoddy dealings with high st. names and dealerships.....

Thankfully, the truth can now be told en-mass, either "so+so" are shisters - or to be fair they are good.

In my old job as an ADI (instructor) i survied by referals and recomendations....no point being in yellow pages waste of money.

What commercial business need to" take on board" now is, that things have changed....word of mouth is WWW. scary for them but about time for us.....alligence and loyalty is hard to find, but a pointer in the right direction is worth its weight in gold....

Bilks. (my 10p)

 

[Dave Hall]

If the dealer is crap then I would`nt want any support/assistance or sponsorship from them....by accepting the above you implicitly imply that you would reccomend them and that would`nt be honest.

 

[judge]

The way I see it is pretty much every dealership has been 'dissed' at one time or another, even the seemingly unflappable Rainbow & CW's - I remain convinced that anything that starts "I went to XXXXXXXX's once and it was shite..." lacks a context, for we can all have a bad moment or day and we can all make mistakes. I think its vital that our intelligence is as good for positive experiences as it is for negative ones. If we don't do this then we will get tagged as whinger's and moaners and we will become disregarded or worse.

Most consumer choices come down to fickle penny saving and for the most part loyalty is as good as their next mistake. I think BMW dealerships do have an air of 'attitude'about them, they shift high volumes of £9K+ bikes, and bargains and deals are alost unheard of but comfy sofas and freshly brewed coffee abound, rightly or wrongly that is where BMW and their dealers have pitched, Tesco's or Pounstretchers they ain't, bargain hunters beware.

Personally if I were ever go into one of these shiny showrooms, I think I'd go with someone who has a good relationship with the dealer of at least tell them they were recommended by someone they know as that more than anything gets you an 'in'.

One final point, if I have a bad experience I always tell the company concerned direct and attempt to resolve it there and then, that strategy more than any other has been the key for my own dealings and its worked very well.

My 2p.

 

[MikeO]

Up to a point, yer honour.

I firmly believe that people should report their experiences with their dealer, both good & bad. It seems either 1. People don't often have good experiences with their dealers or (more likely) 2. They tend, as is human nature, to moan & report when something goes wrong.

The moaning is valuable. All dealers will get things wrong from time to time. Customer relations only really kicks in when it has a problem to solve. THAT is the area I want to read about. Example: Lind's of Norwich told me that the Adv came with fog lights & headlamp guard as standard, because they'd mis-read the dealer release paperwork. Naturally, it turned up without them. Initially they sat on their hands, but after I wrote to the MD, they fitted the stuff for free - as I feel they should have. But when they delivered the bike back to me, they'd filled the petrol tank up (no small expense with a 31 litre tank). To me, that was excellent service. This also defines the only occurence which could be called a 'problem' which I've had with Linds. As a result, I've strongly recommended them on many occasions on the BB.

However, if I was to move home and needed to find another dealer, I'd ask people's opinion. I'd also have the pragmatism to realise that I'd mostly hear people's negative experiences. That's OK, forewarned is forearmed - how many members of this BB having been queueing up to use R&S motorcycles after Mr Tickle's exerience?

Most importantly, the idea that customers can widely publish their experiences, both good & bad, will eventually percolate down to the dealers. The good ones will realise that it is more important to sell 6 bikes to a customer over the next 20 yrs than it is to get one out of the door today. The others will see their businesses suffer. It's called the free market.

Sunday morning ramble over....

MikeO

 

[TaffyScouser]

It can often be the case that it is a particular sales technician or individual in a dealership that is the cause of a problem and not the dealership itself. I do of course not include Motorcycle City in this statement as EVERY dealing I have had with them has been shoddy or unsatisfactory. Its the individuals at point of sale that have made it this way. Head office have managed to solve, sort out problems but whats the use of having to complain to the top each time when the grass roots people are so ill trained or couldnt give a toss most of the time unless you are unloading £1000's on a new bike and then they are all over you like a rash.

 

[pint6x]

Just a cautionary note!

Not wanting to stir things up, but reading the comments about dealers a thought came to mind. It’s a wonderful thing this Internet you can communicate with many people over many miles all at the push of a button. Your words are whisked into hyperspace and are there for all to see. You can share your knowledge, experience, adventures etc both good and bad. People, including the dealers can then take what you say and use it as they intrepid it. We’ve all done well out of the various dealers around the country with the free advertising and good words about the club and the various raffle prizes donated. However that can all be lost if we are seen as a bunch of moaners and general slaggersoffas. I don’t work at a dealership or even in the trade but I have worked in the retail sector and so have a little experience to draw on. The dealers generally will have their customer’s satisfaction at heart because you are their lifeline. They need your custom to survive, make a profit, pay the bills and then with what’s left buy in new lines of goodies etc to temp you back to continue the cycle. If things don’t go according to plan and mistakes are made (we are all human after all ) then you and the dealer may fall out. How far this goes is up to you and the dealer. If you are unhappy with the service or the product you can sort it out with the dealer, the manufacturer, trading standards, the courts etc till all parties have had their pound of flesh and feel happy. Yes you can go elsewhere to spend you cash and I do the same, after all we all like to get value for money and not be ripped-off, it’s called shopping around. The dealers know and accept this, its called competition. But my point is this, the dealers whoever they are, franchise, independent, spares and accessory etc they are in away our lifeline as well – no dealer, no service, no spares, no bike, no club and no fun!

Ross

If all we did was slag dealers off, I would agree with you. As it is, good dealers are also highlighted, so word spreads about the good guys as well as the cowboys.

Take RS Motorcycles (preferably a long way away). I posted originally about them, asking for experience. Someone else posted that he knew one of the guys there and they were basically sound people. We then got to hear about a bike they were offering - Mr. Tickle nearly ended up buying it. Fortunately he posted the results of his dealings and we came to realise that they were cowboys of the highest order.

But then take people like LIND in Norwich - they make mistakes, but they way they deal with them shows that they DO give a toss about customer relationships and they have the balls to apologise and make appropriate redress.

I have also posted in the past about Premier Bikes in Didcot - independent BMW specialists - this is where I get my bike serviced and will continue to do so. Very competitive labour rates, good people (ex-Hughendon M40 BMW), efficient, they know what they're doing.

Good dealers (franchised and independent) deserve to survive. Cowboys deserve to go to the wall. I know this club would never consider going to one of the recognised cowboys for any sort of club discount / affiliation.

My 2p worth

6X

 

[Ross]

Some good comments have been made and expressed better than I did with mine. What was said regarding the reporting of “intelligence” was what I was trying to lead to (credit to “Judge”). If we were to mouth-off without the intelligence to back up the statement, then we would just shoot ourselves in the foot. But when justified then “let rip” and as mentioned, the word will get around and club members can act accordingly. When the dealer picks up on this then, maybe they will make changes to win back praise from the club members and their other customers in general. It’s just that sometimes we appear to slag-off all too readily and as “MikeO” mentioned, we do tend to only make known the negative experiences, not too many positive ones.

I must confess though, I did not read the postings about RS Motorcycles (thanks 6x), so I too am guilty of sounding off without doing my homework first! Boy do they sound one outfit to avoid!

By the way, I must mention I’ve been well treated at Clark’s of Rednal. I had problems with my new Adventure’s cylinder head. The matter was addressed as quick as could be and when communication with BMW faltered, they took it upon themselves to get me back on the road with a fixed bike ASAP. Well done Clark’s

 

[(RIP) Mark Dilloway]

The fundamental point about discussing issues such as these is that the WWW has allowed many people to develop an informed opinion of dealers and quality in general. Just as patients now come to outpatients clinics with an encyclopaedic knowledge of their medical condition gained from the web with which to challenge the medical profession.

Forums have their fair quota of unsubstantiated opinion but in general this forum is a goldmine of knowledge which would cost us an awful lot if we had always to learn by our own mistakes.

By way of example the current debate on V4/5 City Navigator is invaluable if a dealer is either not on top of his subject or just wants to make the sale.

 

[Big Den]

Ross has a point and I have also fallen into the trap of judging a dealer on one bad point.
The comment on Clarks is a good example as I have had very good visits including their ADV demo which clinched the decision to buy not from them but only cos they couldn't get one for 3m.
I will also be checking the BB for recommendations come my 2nd service as my past experiences with the likes of M'city-Carnell have made me very wary and although competent the dealer is not exceptional. In fact if M/CC had not destroyed my previous bike during a service I wouldn't have a ADV.
The other view is also valid as who do you think forced M/C C to sort themselves out, wasn't just loosing the Honda franchise !! many sites were covered in bad press about them.
I will be looking for a balanced view when making a decision which is something we all have isn't it ??

 

[bakerlonglegs]

Higher expectations

Interesting discussion.

I have sounded off on this forum about a dealer in the past (both past bad experiences and recent improvements).

One of the main reasons I was originally so p***ed about the bad experiences was that I had EXPECTED bmw to have customer service down to a fine art. Indeed better service was one of the reasons I justified to myself for buying a beemer as opposed to cheaper Jap alternatives. This was supported by surveys such as RiDE which held bmw in high esteem. When they messed up, with little in the way of apologies or explanation, I was not, as they say, a happy bunny. It smacked of complacency and arrogance. If they get a kick up the a**e from this forum, well fair play.

Er, that's it.

BLL