K25 2005 _ Ball Join telelever replacement - can it be done wrong (too tight)?

paneu

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Hi All,

As I am in Malawi, there's no access to fully equipped workshop. I have had a local mechanic replace the ball joint in the telelever for a new one (had a spare from BMW) - the bike feels different and it's harder to move the wheel when riding, like it was kind of stiff...

Ball joint BMW#: 31 42 7 652 644

Previously I had a GS800 and there when replacing the steering bearings you could tighten it too much - it would behave like that...

Is it possible on that one from the 1200 telelever? To me it looks like not - you just tighten that bolts up and down w a spanner 46, but it doesn't look like you can overdo it? Or am I wrong?

Thanks for your help and maybe someone has links to Youtube videos on how to replace that? Cheers!
 
What does 'harder to move wheel' mean? harder to rotate, harder to move handlebars etc?
 
Just had all this off myself recently to do precisely the same job.

To answer your question. No. It's not possible to over tighten there steering bearing. What I mean is, the specified torque for that bolt is already really high. It would be difficult to over torque it, but even then, it would struggle to caused the 'stiffness' you described.

My first thought is to the cables and hoses that go to the handlebars. There is an outside chance something has been routed the wrong way?



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As a simple starting point get the mechanic to loosen it and see if that makes a difference....
 
I mean it feels different, kind of harder to move handlebars - when riding it, I felt like it's harder to make a turn...but not impossible or so - maybe because the ball joint is new? I don't know how to describe the feeling, like to some point it was normal or almost normal and then it was like there was some sort of resistance...I asked the question mainly because I remember in the 800GS it was easy to overtighten the steering bearing and then it was kind of same feeling, but this one on the telelever looks different so wasn't sure if that's even possible...
 
yes, will do so, wanted to have an insight from the group first to see what else can that be
 
Hmm, that is kind of good news and actually what I thought from how the ball joint looks like - it didn't seem like these two screws actually do anything to the joint itself...I also assume this ball joint is the equivalent of the steering bearing in the GS800 (which is up under the handlebars there)...another thing that comes to my mind is I also changed tires to TKC80s from an old pair of Anakees 2 - maybe that's what gives that feeling as well...
 
Anyway thanks very much boys for your quick echo to my query, stuck here for long so I need the bike up and running not to get mental :)
 
After your posts above, I'm now wondering if, with a properly functioning steering bearing, you're feeling your tyres? How are they? Pressures correct? Are they shagged? Maybe now you know . But the idea is, now something else in the chain is working properly, it is exposing something else...

Steptoe, as usual, also had a practical idea

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the pressure is correct, just never rode that bike with knobbies, but rode other bikes with that type of tyres and it wasn't that same feeling on the handlebars......will have to check tomorrow. but good to know the joint can't be overtightened! hmmm I mean good news, but that means something else is clearly not in tact ;)
 
put in centrestand, front wheel in air, and feel movement of steering

as other have written, it is 200Nm+ so unlikely overtightened but like steptoe says, loosen and retorque to make sure (it's also threadlocked from what I recall)
 
Just re-reading the above posts. You mention the ball joint was done as well as the steering bearing. Or are you also calling the steering bearing the ball joint?

The ball joint can't really be over tightened either. I mean not in a way that would affect the feel of the steering. Not that I can see?

I'm still thinking cable/hose routing and/or tyres...

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I think I meant ball joint and could have called it the steering bearing. The actual steering bearing has not been touched, just the ball joint replaced.

I have been to the mechanic we have loosened and tightened the ball joint, we checked without the wheel by pulling the forks and no sway. All looks normal.

Could it be that the old ball joint was so loose that I now feel like that new one is kind of making that stiff feeling on the handlebars? Tires I checked and the pressure is correct 2.2/2.5....
 
Does steering feel tight with front wheel in air? is tightness linear or increases at a certain point of rotation?
 
paneu said:
I think I meant ball joint and could have called it the steering bearing. The actual steering bearing has not been touched, just the ball joint replaced.

I have been to the mechanic we have loosened and tightened the ball joint, we checked without the wheel by pulling the forks and no sway. All looks normal.

Could it be that the old ball joint was so loose that I now feel like that new one is kind of making that stiff feeling on the handlebars? Tires I checked and the pressure is correct 2.2/2.5....
Click to expand...
Ok. Clearer

NicD has made a good suggestion. This should help you identify what else is rubbing against what as you turn the bars left to right.

I'd be a bit surprised if you felt such a massive difference ie. more drag on the bars with a new ball joint. But I have no idea how bad there old one was .

I'm guessing the mechanic removed the forks to change the ball joint? I guess you could leave the lower bridge in place, but it would make the job fiddly, even difficult - that ball joint has a big tightening torque! If the forks were removed, try NicD's suggestion and look at the cables/hoses routing.

Failing that, I'd suggest your bike is now working properly and you're gonna have to get used to it

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With the front wheel off the ground do the bars fall to the left or right or stay in position ? Do you have to push them with your hand to start them falling left or right ?
 
paneu said:
Hmm, that is kind of good news and actually what I thought from how the ball joint looks like - it didn't seem like these two screws actually do anything to the joint itself...I also assume this ball joint is the equivalent of the steering bearing in the GS800 (which is up under the handlebars there)...another thing that comes to my mind is I also changed tires to TKC80s from an old pair of Anakees 2 - maybe that's what gives that feeling as well...
Click to expand...

I've just put a pair of part worn TKC80's on my GSA, I'm getting a funny feeling like you have explained in your above posts. It feels weird to turn and almost feels a little like the tyres are pointed as it almost falls into corners too quick compared withe tourances I had on before.
I'd also forgotten how much the tyres vibrate at low speeds, really disconcerting at times. I'm getting slowly used to them as I'm riding but they do feel weird.
 
Paneu, this might be your answer! Now that it's working properly, you can feel how shit those tyres are

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Thank you guys for your replies! Issue resolved - so I thought it was the handlebars feel weird on my way from the workshop, it was in fact: the new tires (knobbies) and - the front brake caliper's pistons were stuck (seized) which resulted in the wheel getting more friction with newly installed pads - that together gave that feeling of "unstable" and "stiff" steering...which I blamed the ball joint as I had similar issue in the 800 when I replaced my steering bearings (also wrongly, I thought that ball joint is kind of an equivalent of the steering bearing in the 800)....

So - now all fixed, ready to race ;)
 
Correct! These tires feel weird, but something for something - I live in Malawi where half of the roads are not asphalted and those are tricky as well - lots of sand patches and dry clay which is slippery as hell - all in all this country is basically like a shore of that huge lake so you can imagine the surfaces we ride on...these TKC80s are still much better than Anakee Wilds - I had those on my 800 and they were very stiff which resulted in bike being often out of control on tarmac when braking in wet etc.
 
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