Killed by kindness?

[stowei]

I wonder if I've killed my battery by charging it?

For some time I've been restricted to using bike just for commuting - 35 miles each way Mon-Fri. Had been getting a bit reluctant to start on a Monday morning if the weekend was very cold, so got hold of an Optimate in view of the Xmas lay-up. Hooked up the Optimate and I think I must have got that correct - its pretty simple, there appeared to be only one way to do it, there's no can-bus to worry about, and the voltage readings seemed to be what you might expect (ie starting at c12V rising during charge to c14.3V.

Anyway, left bike on Optimate last night before this morning's return to work and battery was more dead than it's ever been and I couldn't start bike at all (so 35 miles of M25 in a car - not to be recommended).

Have I just killed the battery by charging it (in which case I can fix it by buying a new one) or am I staring ignorantly at some more significant problem?

GS1150 2002 non-ABS

Thanks

Ian

 

[John Armstrong]

I'd try disconnecting the battery from the bike, and connecting up the optimate and try charging it again. The charger will then give some idea if the battery's dead as a parrot.

You have checked that you didn't disconnect the battery lead when hooking up the charger?

 

[Roger Chatterton]

Could be the starter motor is on the way out- had similar problem with my bike, and it was very reluctant to turn-over. Suspected the battery, but, to be brief, after a lot of faffing around, it turned out that the starter (Valeo). It had succumbed to the magnets coming loose from the armature, and causing a huge drain on the battery when trying to turn over the starter- new starter , and everything was back to normal....cost me around £170 for new the starter though...(from Motobins in Sleaford, Lincs).

 

[stowei]

Thanks. Here's a bit more info in case it helps anyone narrow this down for me. (Between work and kids I get about five minutes to myself every leap year, so I'm a bit pushed when it comes to finding time to investigate things thoroughly. So any thoughts that helps me target the problem much appreciated.)

Yes I can disconnect the battery and charge it direct, but since the Optimate charges through the auxiliary socket I can't have done anything to dislodge the battery leads. And the Optimate has a voltmeter which read about what I thought it would - ie 12V when first connected, 14.3 when it was coming to end of charging cycle.

In terms of whether the starter motor is on the way out: When I was getting the problem before I bought the Optimate, the symptoms were restricted to only after very cold weekends of lying idle. Started first nlunge every other day, and would start on Mondays but just took a bit of a wheeze to lift over the first compression. This morning, by contrast, we just went straight into a solenoid click and instant-clock-death - didn't notice the starter even try to lift over the compression.

So I'm still thinking/hoping 'dead battery' but I've just never killed one stone dead by charging it before (and having used a bike as my work transport every day for the last 30 years I've killed quite a few!).

I'm tempted to just order one of these Hawker super-battery-things from Nippy and see if that fixes it. Any more thoughts before I do?

 

[John Armstrong]

Just a thought, have you measured the voltage across the battery when the optimate is 14v?

Just in case you've blown the accessory socket fuse, in which case the optimate charging through the socket wouldn't do a lot of good

 

[stowei]

Thanks John. Sat here at work with bike at home so can only gather ideas & cogitate until I get home, but if that was the case (ie blown fuse) I wouldn't have thought that I would get a voltage reading when the charger is turned off.

The way the Optimate thingie works that I've got hold of is that it has a separate in-line voltage reader so that the voltage reader can be used independently of the charger unit (still through the aux socket). Therefore I guess that getting a reading from the voltmeter when the charger has been disconnected must be confirming that there is a circuit between socket and battery?

Ian

 

[John Armstrong]

The way the Optimate thingie works that I've got hold of is that it has a separate in-line voltage reader so that the voltage reader can be used independently of the charger unit (still through the aux socket). Therefore I guess that getting a reading from the voltmeter when the charger has been disconnected must be confirming that there is a circuit between socket and battery?

Ian

Sounds like the fuse is ok if the optimate can read a voltage when it's not charging.

 

[Aidan1150]

This may seem like a silly question Ian, but is it an original lead-acid battery that is in the bike at present? If so, it's highly likely that it is completely knackered.

The lead-acid batteries were phased out in 01/02 and should have been replaced with gel batteries, but my lead-acid had never given any trouble and so hadn't been changed. I have an '01 1150.

Mine failed last year up on the Isle of Skye and had to be replaced with a new gel battery, at £93. Up until then it had been fine and just failed all of a sudden.

This may (or indeed may not) be your trouble, but it's worth checking anyway.

 

[speeder]

In my experence the charging system should easily cope with a 35 mile commute, the bike should start no problem. Mine is OK in winter with only a 12mile return trip. it sounds like your battery is fecked, particularly if it is more than about three years old.
The optimate cannot revive a failing battery, all they ever did for me was boil the battery dry!!

 

[stowei]

Thanks Aidan. I don't know because I've never looked, but yes I strongly suspect that I will find an original lead-acid battery and yes the failure has not been instant but certainly it has gone downhill from absolutely fine to absolutely dead over a short period (about 6 weeks). Everything about it from my experience shouts 'dead battery' but I've never managed to make a battery worse by trickle-charging it before, hence seeking second opinions.

Can a trickle-charge be as instantly fatal as I seem to have experienced?

Thanks

 

[John Armstrong]

Can a trickle-charge be as instantly fatal as I seem to have experienced?

Maybe it was the straw that broke the camels back

Or just co-incidental, similar to if you've been out on a long run and it's dead. Which happened to me on a 405 diesel. Started ok and after 2 hours stopped to get a pint of milk. And absolutely nothing, wouldn't even power the radio Got a 24v jump from a recovery vehicle to get me home. One hours run later, still fcuked.

 

[Aidan1150]

Can a trickle-charge be as instantly fatal as I seem to have experienced?

I would think that the battery has become so discharged that the trickle charger was unable to recover it at all.

The trickle charger is good at keeping a healthy battery in charge but could not recover a battery that is to all intents and purposes dead.

 

[Packer]

Check the battery terminal connections. I thought that my original battery was dead at around 2 years and 20,000 miles. Slow starting or no starting after a few days without use.

I had the bike cut out at traffic lights and refuse to restart. I pushed it to the side of the road and bounced it up the kerb to get clear of the traffic after which it started without a problem.

Aaahaaa, connections says I and it was the correct diagnosis. Over 4 years now and some 40,000 miles the battery is still fine.

Make sure that the connections are clean and tight, smear them with vaseline and then give the battery a good charge.

Make sure when you switch the bike off that you don't turn the key too far and leave the side lights on. I did this the other day for the first time ever (as far as I'm aware) and fortunately a hawk eyed tooser noticed.

 

[stowei]

Whipped the tank off when I got home. Think charging through the aux socket may be very convenient but in my case was a big mistake - if I'd had the tank off earlier I suspect that I'd have seen beginnings of battery starting to corrode - now spewing at the positive terminal although I suspect that it's got much worse through the 'charging'. Anyway, new battery it is and I hope that's all.

Thanks for input.

Ian