LC GS Harsh suspension....or Sachs vs WP!

Motorcycle Michael

Motorcycle Michael

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Getting back to harsh suspension,and at the risk of another argument!
How many of us think their LC could have more compliant suspension compared to WP units on the last Hexheads?
I'd be interested in hearing all points of view good & bad.
Incidentally,I rode the LC RT with Marzocchi's before they were all recalled and thought the RT had a great set up. Firm AND comfortable so it can be done.

Your thoughts please,
Mike. :blagblah :blagblah
 
I tend to run on the 'NORMAL' ESA setting and do not consider it overly harsh, BUT I have moved to the 'SOFT' setting when covering miles on boring roads.

You should be able to find a setting that is not too harsh :thumb2
 
Trust me on this,I have tried,for a year!
My bike is OK when riding really fast but when you slow down,it doesn't soften the settings off taking into consideration that throttle,brakes and suspension travel have all stopped working so hard. Non active suspension here?
When I'm using all the travel on fast bumpy and undulating roads,it's great-probably the best. When the bike is banked over,if I go over rough road or a rippled surface,it just skips out-it almost had me and the Mrs off! Around town it's very harsh on small sharp bumps ,a high speed damping issue me thinks.

I've also tried different tyres (PR 4's) and various pressures with no improvement.
 
I almost always have esa set to soft even for fast road riding . Riding over fast undulating country roads i can sometimes feel it bottom out but generally find the soft setting best. Im 13st and no luggage. I do feel that in other esa settings the suspension is over damped.
 
I think the bike has pretty soft and compliant damping, almost too soft, really. In New England we have some really crappy roads, so I've tested it thoroughly. Soft is good for frost heaves and bumps that are close enough together that you can't really dodge most of them. Normal is good for most riding. Hard is good for smooth fast pavement. I think BMW did a nice job. Then again, I weigh just a bit more than 85 kg and rode a Ducati with an Ohlins shock prior to this bike, so I'm biased towards suspension being compliant but well damped.

Anecdote: Was talking to a friend today at lunch about a New Hampshire road we both rode independently on Friday, him on his r1100s with upgraded BMW suspension. He mentioned that it was pretty frost heaved, and I said I didn't remember it being that bad. When we rode back over it after lunch, I could see he was right about its condition, but since I had ridden it in Soft mode on Friday, the frost heaves had not made any kind of memorable impression on me.
 
Hi,
That makes interesting reading and I would expect that the price in Dollars will translate directly to pounds so they're not cheap. I have a couple of bikes with Wilbers units and they seem like a quality product.
It's a shame that Wilbers are not supplying BMW.

I collect my replacement bike on Friday and won't be spending 2 grand on aftermarket suspension. I hope it's better than the last bike!
Having looked at Sach motorcycle suspension online and seen that they have very little to do with motorcycles,why would BMW choose Sachs?....oh yes,the price.

I think the content of this pdf document from ZF Sachs shows how little experience they have with bikes.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/do.../customer_magazines/zf_sre_1/MagazinZFSRE.pdf
 
Motorcycle Michael said:
It's a shame that Wilbers are not supplying BMW.
I collect my replacement bike on Friday and won't be spending 2 grand on aftermarket suspension. I hope it's better than the last bike!
Having looked at Sach motorcycle suspension online and seen that they have very little to do with motorcycles,why would BMW choose Sachs?....oh yes,the price.
I think the content of this pdf document from ZF Sachs shows how little experience they have with bikes.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/do.../customer_magazines/zf_sre_1/MagazinZFSRE.pdf
Click to expand...

It might not have been just price. Sachs already had experience with active damping valves. Also, the telelever does not use conventional forks. There are only minor functional differences between the shocks on a car and the ones the R-bikes use. Therefore prior experience with motorcycles may not be that big a factor. The high-end car shocks that Sachs supplies are expected to last much longer in general that regular moto shocks, so that might be a plus as well. The biggest concern at this point is uncertainty since there is not enough data to know what the longevity of these shocks will be.

I'm just glad we don't have Marzocchis at this point :eek: Previous experience with motos didn't help there, much.
 
yankeedoodledandy said:
It might not have been just price. Sachs already had experience with active damping valves. Also, the telelever does not use conventional forks. There are only minor functional differences between the shocks on a car and the ones the R-bikes use. Therefore prior experience with motorcycles may not be that big a factor. The high-end car shocks that Sachs supplies are expected to last much longer in general that regular moto shocks, so that might be a plus as well. The biggest concern at this point is uncertainty since there is not enough data to know what the longevity of these shocks will be.

I'm just glad we don't have Marzocchis at this point :eek: Previous experience with motos didn't help there, much.
Click to expand...

As many car designers have found out,what works on a car doesn't translate directly to bikes so I'll stand firm on that.
As for Marzocchi suspension,Point taken, I'm also pleased not to have them on my bike.

Have you ridden the new RT? While it lasted the suspension worked great on the demo bike I rode earlier in the year. Very heavy bike though which was really apparent with poor acceleration and braking.....I'm not ready for the RT yet.

Cheers.
 
Sachs have been doing rear shocks for Aprilia and Ducati for years, they are the ones that everyone swaps for Ohlins and Showa off the higher spec bikes
 
I talked to John at Revs Racing Wilbers Suspension a few weeks ago, he suggested a cost of about £1380.00 for a pair of new Wilbers esa shocks built to suit your weight (and passenger if applicable) this price also included fitting and setting up, and he said Wilbers would give a plusher ride than the standard sash units. http://www.revsracing.co.uk/history.php

Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice!

However, he seemed like a man who knew about bike suspension!
 
batman1 said:
I talked to John at Revs Racing Wilbers Suspension a few weeks ago, he suggested a cost of about £1380.00 for a pair of new Wilbers esa shocks built to suit your weight (and passenger if applicable) this price also included fitting and setting up, and he said Wilbers would give a plusher ride than the standard sash units. http://www.revsracing.co.uk/history.php

Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice!

However, he seemed like a man who knew about bike suspension!
Click to expand...

What are trying to do to my poor head??
Now you've found this information,you'd better come up with a cracking excuse to give to the Mrs for the £1380 that may go missing from the bank account. :thumb
 
Ha Ha...well you started it!

Yesterday I got back from a cracking long weekend in Bonny Scotland, which included a ride over the mountain to Applecross a biker's Mecca......totally awesome... as was my GS-LC on it's completely standard suspension! :augie

I needed to get both Applecross and Lower Diabaig ticked off my 'biker's bucket list' and now it's done, however I will be back!

The Scott who designed the roads up there was clearly a biker...just superb!
 
batman1 said:
Ha Ha...well you started it!

Yesterday I got back from a cracking long weekend in Bonny Scotland, which included a ride over the mountain to Applecross a biker's Mecca......totally awesome... as was my GS-LC on it's completely standard suspension! :augie

I needed to get both Applecross and Lower Diabaig ticked off my 'biker's bucket list' and now it's done, however I will be back!

Glad you had a great ride up there.
My bike's been great over fast undulating roads like the stuff up North Yorks,Cumbria,Durham etc it's slow going when it's very uncomfortable.
Anyway,enough of that as I'm back to the dealers now to drop my 2013 TE off and I'll collect my '14 TE on Friday so fingers crossed.

The Scott who designed the roads up there was clearly a biker...just superb!
Click to expand...

Glad you had a good trip up there.
My bikes good on fast undulating roads but on slow town roads it rattles my fillings out!
Anyway enough of that bike as I'm off to drop my '13 TE off and will collect my new TE on Friday. Fingers crossed this one's better at low speeds. :thumb2
 
I've taken my GS WC into my dealer to allow them to change some parts over to my new bike and they gave me the last of the air/oil cooled R1200R's for a few days.
It has ESA and when you toddle through the settings the difference is amazing compared to my GS that just has varying degrees of hard!
On soft its lovely but still under control,normal is stiffer as you would expect and hard is HARD and sharp as you would want.
If this is the way ESA works on an older model,why the f**k is the evolution "active" ESA so hard on slow rough roads? This R12R proves to me,BMW/Sachs have their suspension sums wrong on the GS. You can have a wide and varied range of electronic adjustment and be comfortable 95% of the time.
In truth,I'm bit a pissed off now I've ridden the R12R and wonder what my new GS will be like-I'll find out tomorrow I suppose. :confused:
 
Mike is yours a factory lowered bike by any chance?

I can see that it won't be long before you are the volunteer tester for the group for some new ESA Wilbers on the GS-LC....Revs racing..remember!
 
Motorcycle Michael said:
I've taken my GS WC into my dealer to allow them to change some parts over to my new bike and they gave me the last of the air/oil cooled R1200R's for a few days.
It has ESA and when you toddle through the settings the difference is amazing compared to my GS that just has varying degrees of hard!
On soft its lovely but still under control,normal is stiffer as you would expect and hard is HARD and sharp as you would want.
If this is the way ESA works on an older model,why the f**k is the evolution "active" ESA so hard on slow rough roads? This R12R proves to me,BMW/Sachs have their suspension sums wrong on the GS. You can have a wide and varied range of electronic adjustment and be comfortable 95% of the time.
In truth,I'm bit a pissed off now I've ridden the R12R and wonder what my new GS will be like-I'll find out tomorrow I suppose. :confused:
Click to expand...

Honestly, the way you describe the older GS suspension is exactly how my LC suspension feels to me. You're the first person I recall claiming the older ESA feels better than the new one.

I never liked the older GS models enough to buy one, so I have no personal opinion about their suspension. However, most people on the forums seem to bash the previous gen ESA as overpriced garbage that is not worth the $ to rebuild it. YMMV, obviously.
 
My 2011 non esa 1200gsa was very poor on standard suspension, with Maxton front and rear units it was transformed.
It only needs 10mm of extra preload on the rear for two up with luggage and the front has never needed to be touched.
The new gsa wc with esa had a very harsh feel to the suspension, I did order a new one for September and it does actually have me concerned that it isn't as good as the older bike.
I actually looked into trying to get a basic bike ie non esa but they would not do it with all the other bits and pieces I wanted
From the differing comments I am not sure if either the esa units vary greatly in quality, the way the bikes electronics are set up or the expectations of the riders ie those that have ridden gsa models with decent
aftermarket suspension realise how bad or compromised the standard set up really is
 
I'm still hoping to hear from someone with an LC who has actually had a full Wilbers esa conversion, and how the new setup rides and handles.

Is there anyone out there?
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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