Lost all Electrics?

[Rotaxmaxracer]

Having just got back from a 220 mile ride last night - switched her off put bike on side stand whilst moving the car out of the way. Got back on, started up no problem - then stalled it as I still had the side stand down (wally!!)

On then going to start the bike I find I have lost all electrical function - even the dashboard display goes blank when the ignition is switched on. Lost all functionality (horn, lights etc).

I tried removing the red lead from the battery to clear the system down a couple of times - but seems to have made no difference at all.

Has anybody ideas where to start? No EWS showing - in fact nothing showing at all other than the display comes up for around 1 second as you switch the ignition between off and on.

Perplexed

Thanks in advance for any help and advice offered

Paul

R1200GS - 2006 (ABS)

 

[JJH]

sounds like battery. They do that sometimes. JJH

 

[Bendy toy]

Disconnect battery and check the positive lead to earth. If there is continuity to earth the alternator regulator has failed. That will cook the battery and then short it to earth when the bike is switched off.

It may simply be a duff battery but the above test takes only minutes.

 

[Rotaxmaxracer]

Thanks both...I just had the battery on charge and now showing charged on optimal. Still nothing though! I suppose that it would be the case if the battery is cooked/dead! I'll try the continuity test - and if not go buy another battery.

Appreciate your help

 

[Pukmeister]

Ignition switch contacts could be faulty, its been known before on R1200 models. A new ignition switch cures it ( not the key part, the bit with the wiggly amps in it).

 

[Magwych]

Ignition switch contacts could be faulty, its been known before on R1200 models. A new ignition switch cures it ( not the key part, the bit with the wiggly amps in it).

Try turning the key on and off a few times. If the power does eventually come back, or you have power on but the key turned off, then the switch us bvggered...
It is not unknown

 

[Bendy toy]

If battery is connected and holding charge you can say the generator and battery are most likely fine. Next stop is to try the ignition switch and wires leading to it.

 

[Rotaxmaxracer]

Left the battery on trickle charge overnight - but interestingly the optimate had gone from a green (fully charged) light last night to a red (desulphate) light this morning. I tried the ignition switch a number of times first - nothing at all. I then removed the battery leads and checked the reading - 13.28v showing on the meter.

Then as suggested I set the Multimeter to continuity setting and found that I do have continuity between the positive lead and earth. Does this definitely point to the problem? Would the battery still indicate 13.2v if it was cooked?

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[snaponphil]

If battery is connected and holding charge you can say the generator and battery are most likely fine. Next stop is to try the ignition switch and wires leading to it.

Try voltage across battery terminals with battery CONNECTED, then turn ignition on & engage starter, if voltage drops to below 10volts get a new battery..

 

[Bendy toy]

As @snaponphil says, if the battery is fully charged, volts should not drop below 10V with the starter turning.

Disconnect the battery positive. There should be infinite (or VERY high) resistance between the terminal and earth. This is measuring across the generator regulator circuit, so any current back flow indicates the regulator has failed. When that happens, the battery gets cooked by excessive voltage then flattened by the short circuit to earth when bike is switched off. A battery that's suffered like that is unlikely to be any good.

 

[Rotaxmaxracer]

The problem I have is that with the battery connected I have no switchgear/starter function at all. Its almost as if the battery is disconnected, so trying to operate the starter won't work. There is not even a regular LCD clock display on the dash, and no sign of any warning lights/check sequence when the ignition is switched on. Is there a fuse somewhere perhaps?

 

[Rotaxmaxracer]

Just made a discovery! Checked all fuses (OK) - then re-connected battery and now reading 12.77 volts. Left the Meter connected whilst I switched on the ignition - only to find the reading dropped to 4.2 volts each and every time!

I am guessing this is telling me the battery is kaput...but the question now is whether I have a bigger problem - as I am getting continuity between the live terminal and earth when disconnected.

Think we may have possibly found the answer?

 

[Bendy toy]

Connect the battery and start the bike with jump leads. The system volts should not go above 14.4V.

Testing to earth, I meant the positive lead - not the battery post of course Granny and eggs mode off.

There can also be an apparent short to earth if there is a clock running. The only certain way to test is at the alternator with the wiring system unplugged.

 

[Rotaxmaxracer]

Thanks for the Granny advice (none taken but it was the lead and not the post that I checked. Will try the jump leads tomorrow to see if that identifies the problem. Here's hoping, thanks

 

[Rotaxmaxracer]

Run the jump-leads test this morning - good news and not so good news...

Good News :- All lights, functions, displays etc are immediately back up and running as normal - the check sequence works and all is well in that department. Battery defo shagged I would say.

Not-so-good-news: - With the car running and jump leads connected - when I try to start the bike there is just a loud mechanical 'clonking' noise from the area of the starter motor & solenoid. I am assuming that the solenoid has jammed though this is just a guess?

I tried putting the bike in fifth gear and rocking it to an fro - also removed the starter cover and tried tapping the solenoid as hard as i dare with a rubber mallet - but to no avail. When I press the starter, the mechanical noise is accompanied by a momentary display of the engine management icon (no EWS) which goes off as soon as I release the starter.

Does this appear to be the starter to you experts out there - as if so it doesn't seem like a difficult job to do myself.

Just one question though...If (as I am guessing) the starter solenoid jammed when I inadvertently put into gear with s/stand down and tried to re-start...is it just coincidence that the battery decided to pack up at this time or is there some way this could all be related?

Thanks all, really appreciate the sound and helpful advice given

 

[snaponphil]

Run the jump-leads test this morning - good news and not so good news...

Good News :- All lights, functions, displays etc are immediately back up and running as normal - the check sequence works and all is well in that department. Battery defo shagged I would say.

Not-so-good-news: - With the car running and jump leads connected - when I try to start the bike there is just a loud mechanical 'clonking' noise from the area of the starter motor & solenoid. I am assuming that the solenoid has jammed though this is just a guess?

I tried putting the bike in fifth gear and rocking it to an fro - also removed the starter cover and tried tapping the solenoid as hard as i dare with a rubber mallet - but to no avail. When I press the starter, the mechanical noise is accompanied by a momentary display of the engine management icon (no EWS) which goes off as soon as I release the starter.

Does this appear to be the starter to you experts out there - as if so it doesn't seem like a difficult job to do myself.

Just one question though...If (as I am guessing) the starter solenoid jammed when I inadvertently put into gear with s/stand down and tried to re-start...is it just coincidence that the battery decided to pack up at this time or is there some way this could all be related?

Thanks all, really appreciate the sound and helpful advice given

Dare I suggest fit a new fully charged battery & try it again..

 

[Bendy toy]

A stalled starter motor will cause a serious volts drop.

The starter is attached to the bike by two M10 bolts and its power lead. Pull it off the bike. The starter spur gear should be close to the motor.

The small hex bolts on the motor end allow the armature and brushes to be pulled out as a unit. Mine has 50K miles and the brushes are fine. However, the brush carrier plate was beginning to rust. I've caught mine in time but you never know until you look.

I recently posted a "how to" for stripping the starter motor.

 

[Rotaxmaxracer]

A stalled starter motor will cause a serious volts drop.

The starter is attached to the bike by two M10 bolts and its power lead. Pull it off the bike. The starter spur gear should be close to the motor.

The small hex bolts on the motor end allow the armature and brushes to be pulled out as a unit. Mine has 50K miles and the brushes are fine. However, the brush carrier plate was beginning to rust. I've caught mine in time but you never know until you look.

I recently posted a "how to" for stripping the starter motor.

Thanks a million - going out to do that right now.

As an aside...been researching battery prices:-

BMW Dealer Price £118
Yuasa (via MDS) £43 - 1 year warranty
Shorai (via MDS) £181 - 3 year warranty and lighter/better cranking power
Numax (Via Manbat) £27.80 - 1 year warranty

Even if the Numax isn't as good as the genuine BMW article - I could buy one a year for the next 4 years and be no worse off!

Pays to shop around.

 

[Beemerman59]

Thanks a million - going out to do that right now.

As an aside...been researching battery prices:-

BMW Dealer Price £118
Yuasa (via MDS) £43 - 1 year warranty
Shorai (via MDS) £181 - 3 year warranty and lighter/better cranking power
Numax (Via Manbat) £27.80 - 1 year warranty

Even if the Numax isn't as good as the genuine BMW article - I could buy one a year for the next 4 years and be no worse off!

Pays to shop around.

Yes, minus the inconvenience of being caught out miles from home four times instead of just the once with a duff battery and non-functioning bike.

I've got an Odyssey on mine - not cheap but worth it to me simply for the confidence factor.

 

[Rotaxmaxracer]

Yes, minus the inconvenience of being caught out miles from home four times instead of just the once with a duff battery and non-functioning bike.

I've got an Odyssey on mine - not cheap but worth it to me simply for the confidence factor.

I take your point - but I think that might be stretching it just a bit! Unlikely to fail in 12 months I would have thought. Agree you get what you pay for...to a point! Cant see that a £180 battery is going to last me 6 1/2 times longer thats all.

Could just buy a new one every 18 months just in case.