Low charging rate - LC GS.

Nick V

Nick V

Well-known member
UKGSer Subscriber
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
646
Reaction score
8
Location
De Rust, South Africa
Hi, all!

I've just arrived home from the Friday afternoon commute.

Bloody annoying problem. 20 Km out from home, I get the red Master Warning triangle and the charging rate indicator. I switched to the voltage readout: approximately 12 Volts (it's normally between 14.0 and 14.4). Voltage stays at that level, plus/minus 0.2 to 0.3V, no matter the engine speed or whether all accessories are switched on or not.

Has anyone else had this on an LC GS or GSA as yet? In my experience as a maccy, this usually signals deteriorating alternator windings and/or voltage regulator-rectifier.

My GS-911 turned up no fault codes.

Please could someone with the relevant REPROM forward me the recommended diagnostic procedure in case of low charging voltage?

Thanks guys!
 
Sounds like an alternator or voltage regulator failure , there is at least one similar failure on here , someone touring in the US last summer
 
Thanks guys!

Not good news for me, but if it's a reality, it's a reality. The real pain in the ass is that I've just looked through a lot of images and videos on the 'net, and besides knowing that the alternator is located inside the engine, somewhere to the back, I can't figure out its exact location.
One thing is for sure, though. I am NOT resorting to stripping the entire bike until I know without a doubt that the alternator is at fault.

Does anyone here have the REPROM? If so, please can you relate BMW's recommended diagnostic procedure for the alternator and regulator/rectifier?

Thanks!
 
I would think the rectifier and regulator are built in to the alternator. If you can get any numbers off the actual alternator I maybe able to cross refer it and tell you what should be on each of the wires going to it as I repair car and truck alternators and starters. I would expect the alternator to be either bosch or Nippon denso.
 
If the alternator is built into the engine I would assume the regular rectifier to be a separate unit on the frame somewhere
 
duckspeed said:
If the alternator is built into the engine I would assume the regular rectifier to be a separate unit on the frame somewhere
Click to expand...

Just read the thread about the failed one and you could well be correct,I'd assumed that they were similar to the pre LC version. What a step forward :blast
 
That cut away shows 3 yellow wires, = 3 phase alternator.
Normally would expect 70 to 80 volts AC between phases on a bike alternator.
If the output is around that figure back to the voltage regulator / rectifier. and low output from the reg / rec, below 14v DC I would suspect that unit to be faulty.
 
Nick V said:
Thanks guys!

Not good news for me, but if it's a reality, it's a reality. The real pain in the ass is that I've just looked through a lot of images and videos on the 'net, and besides knowing that the alternator is located inside the engine, somewhere to the back, I can't figure out its exact location.
One thing is for sure, though. I am NOT resorting to stripping the entire bike until I know without a doubt that the alternator is at fault.

Does anyone here have the REPROM? If so, please can you relate BMW's recommended diagnostic procedure for the alternator and regulator/rectifier?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I just had a look and it shows instructions about changing it out but as far as diagnostics it refers to the BMW Motorrad Diagnostic System
 
Some prodding and poking of the technical brains at ADVRider yielded a very workable set of diagnostic procedures. That's the good news.
The bad news is, my alternator is as shagged as a low-rent streetwalker.

The facts:

  1. The alternator's AC voltage output is way, way below what it should be.
  2. The above is more than likely a result of burned insulation (and thus, a short circuit) on the stator windings.
  3. There is no way to get to the alternator without removing the engine's rear cover (and a substantial part of the gearbox).
  4. There is no way to remove the engine's rear cover without removing the engine from the bike.
  5. Apparently, this failure is not as uncommon as might be thought. The ADVRider thread I was reading mentioned at least four other instances - all on 2013 and early 2014 bikes.
  6. The BMW part number for the alternator was changed in April 2014. So BMW knew the alternator was prone to fail.

I'm currently gathering what I need to make a request that this be sorted as an out-of-warranty claim. I wouldn't bother if the whole bike didn't have to be subjected to major surgery to get to the alternator - but it does.

If anyone here knows anyone who's also had alternator failure, how did you sort it with your dealer? Was the bike still under warranty? And what mileage did it have?

Meanwhile, if you are thinking of buying a 2013 or early 2014 R1200GS or GS Adventure... I'd think it over a few more times. :eek:
 
malcopopolo said:
Have you not taken out the extended warranty? this could be expensive.
Click to expand...

2nd hand alternators on Fleabay for under £200, not difficult to strip / replace if you have reasonable dry area / decent tools. The dealer replaced my engine under warranty same day - I believe he said time allowed is somewhere around 4 hours (workshop) so should be doable in a day DIY style? Should be a decent interesting job? good luck
 
Thanking everyone for the suggestions!

MrMcNamara said:
2nd hand alternators on Fleabay for under £200, not difficult to strip / replace if you have reasonable dry area / decent tools. The dealer replaced my engine under warranty same day - I believe he said time allowed is somewhere around 4 hours (workshop) so should be doable in a day DIY style? Should be a decent interesting job? good luck
Click to expand...

It may help to share my thoughts and opinions on this:
  1. It angers me that a bike advertised as a Go-anywhere-do-anything, all-conquering continent-crusher was released with such an easily avoidable inherent fault. The blame for this lies either with inadequate R&D (unlikely), or BMW pfennig-pfinching (inexcusable).
  2. (It angers me that this bike is advertised as a Go-anywhere-do-anything, all-conquering continent-crusher anyway. The boxer GS is, and always has been, a glorified (and somewhat heavy) touring bike. Anything else it has been seen to do is a testament to the inventiveness/riding talent of its owners. That anyone is convinced otherwise is a testament to the power of Marketing.)
  3. I served my time in a franchised workshop. I know how any vehicle's inherent faults are handled: deny all knowledge, and place the burden of proof on the customer. Because if you acknowledge the fault, you open the door for more claims.
  4. I do not allow dealership service staff to touch my bikes unless it absolutely can't be avoided. I have never bought a bike brand-new, and out of the 14 I've owned, this is the only one I've ever owned that was still within its warranty period. The only reason I allowed BMW to service this bike was to preserve that warranty. Even so, I've still seen evidence of ham-fisted servicing - the bike has a Touratech oil filler cap that is loosened using a T50 Torx key, but that they tried to undo with a big screwdriver, and the rear drive oil wasn't replaced at the last service. No, BMW have no stake in keeping me alive and approximately upright. I do.
  5. I would do this job myself, except that I live and work in different cities. Disposable time and energy are factors. If I have to do it, I will - but not before I've exhausted all other avenues.

Bottom line: I don't see why I should have to fork out because of a chain of mistakes BMW have made.

And I think I speak for all of us when I say that if a a bike is advertised as a Go-anywhere-do-anything, all-conquering continent-crusher, its reliability should be, metaphorically, like Caesar's wife. It should be above even the appearance of fault.
 
Nick V said:
Thanking everyone for the suggestions!



It may help to share my thoughts and opinions on this:
  1. It angers me that a bike advertised as a Go-anywhere-do-anything, all-conquering continent-crusher was released with such an easily avoidable inherent fault. The blame for this lies either with inadequate R&D (unlikely), or BMW pfennig-pfinching (inexcusable).
  2. (It angers me that this bike is advertised as a Go-anywhere-do-anything, all-conquering continent-crusher anyway. The boxer GS is, and always has been, a glorified (and somewhat heavy) touring bike. Anything else it has been seen to do is a testament to the inventiveness/riding talent of its owners. That anyone is convinced otherwise is a testament to the power of Marketing.)
  3. I served my time in a franchised workshop. I know how any vehicle's inherent faults are handled: deny all knowledge, and place the burden of proof on the customer. Because if you acknowledge the fault, you open the door for more claims.
  4. I do not allow dealership service staff to touch my bikes unless it absolutely can't be avoided. I have never bought a bike brand-new, and out of the 14 I've owned, this is the only one I've ever owned that was still within its warranty period. The only reason I allowed BMW to service this bike was to preserve that warranty. Even so, I've still seen evidence of ham-fisted servicing - the bike has a Touratech oil filler cap that is loosened using a T50 Torx key, but that they tried to undo with a big screwdriver, and the rear drive oil wasn't replaced at the last service. No, BMW have no stake in keeping me alive and approximately upright. I do.
  5. I would do this job myself, except that I live and work in different cities. Disposable time and energy are factors. If I have to do it, I will - but not before I've exhausted all other avenues.

Bottom line: I don't see why I should have to fork out because of a chain of mistakes BMW have made.

And I think I speak for all of us when I say that if a a bike is advertised as a Go-anywhere-do-anything, all-conquering continent-crusher, its reliability should be, metaphorically, like Caesar's wife. It should be above even the appearance of fault.
Click to expand...

I kind of think you are making too big of a deal over a blown stator to be honest. It's not like the design of the bike is faulty and it just had something break that is a common failure on many other bikes.
 
fredaroony said:
I kind of think you are making too big of a deal over a blown stator to be honest. It's not like the design of the bike is faulty and it just had something break that is a common failure on many other bikes.
Click to expand...

You're 100% right: stator failures seem to be quite common on F800GSs, too.

The difference is that on an F800GS, you put the bike on its centrestand, pop the top on a Heineken, disconnect a multi-pin plug, remove 14 screws, and the right-hand crank cover with stator is sitting in your hand.

Even if it happens between Perth and Darwin, no problem. Find a hole-in-the-wall machine shop to rewind your stator, and you're off again in a day.
Not so on an LC. By that stage -if you know how the bike is put together - you've already called half a dozen long-distance towing companies and are starting to wonder how you're going to pay off next month's credit card bill.

On a philosophical note, if stator failure is so common that BMW can be nonchalant about it, then I say it's time we started forcing the issue by taking our money elsewhere.
 
fredaroony said:
I kind of think you are making too big of a deal over a blown stator to be honest. It's not like the design of the bike is faulty and it just had something break that is a common failure on many other bikes.
Click to expand...

Sorry - have to disagree. The design is faulty. Not the design of the alternator itself but the location. Maintainability is a key aspect in any competent engineering design.
To hide the alternator in the bowels of the engine, stinks.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Optimate 4 battery charging with a dashcam VSYS 1200 GS LC
Replies
18
Views
4,191
Deleted account 191119001
gsman1
1200 GS Charging rate.
Replies
14
Views
2,893
gsman1
gsman1
Battery charging rate?
Replies
19
Views
4,370
Carefulkev


Back
Top Bottom