Manifold stud removal - what else can be done?

[ralphy]

I've managed before on several bikes, but this lot on my '02 1150GS have buggered me.

A combination of heat/cold/PlusGas/stud extractor/loads of patience has been done and now all I've got left is 4 stumps.

Would welding a lever onto them work?
I've used a drill and tap before, but I've read that drilling out is risky due to a nearby oil-well?
Helicoils I've heard of but no experience?
Is it even possible to do anything whilst the cylinders are still on the bike?

Advice please!!

R

 

[tuftywhite]

Send them to Mistacat?

 

[Tristafarian]

Have you got access to a welder?

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[what have i done]

I've managed before on several bikes, but this lot on my '02 1150GS have buggered me.

A combination of heat/cold/PlusGas/stud extractor/loads of patience has been done and now all I've got left is 4 stumps.

Would welding a lever onto them work?
I've used a drill and tap before, but I've read that drilling out is risky due to a nearby oil-well?
Helicoils I've heard of but no experience?
Is it even possible to do anything whilst the cylinders are still on the bike?

Advice please!!

R

Don't do what I did and try a "stud extractor". Mine (extractor bought for the job) snapped turning a pain in the arse job into a nightmare.. I had to spend hour and hours with a dremmel and carbide bits grinding the extractor out.. I would try some left hand drill bits.. And lots of patience and swearing.. Some people are good enough with a "tig" to weld a bit on. I did weld a spanner on once but the stud was brittle... As you know

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[Scooter Boy]

Weld a lever such as and old screw driver at right angles onto the stud,the heat should held break the corrosion bond then carefuly work it back and forth,when you have a bit of movement spay some releasing oil on it and keep working it a bit at a time.

 

[Tristafarian]

Weld a lever such as and old screw driver at right angles onto the stud,the heat should held break the corrosion bond then carefuly work it back and forth,when you have a bit of movement spay some releasing oil on it and keep working it a bit at a time.

I welded a nut onto the snapped headers of my Bonneville and used heat/beeswax/patience to free them. Worked a treat even though all my hope was lost....

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[MickDB1]

As said about weld a nut onto it. then turn it out -

 

[adm1]

Weld a nut on, heat it up and try an air or electric impact wrench. The combination of heat and vibration should (hopefully) break it loose.

 

[Tristafarian]

Weld a nut on, heat it up and try an air or electric impact wrench. The combination of heat and vibration should (hopefully) break it loose.

I wouldn't recommend an impact wrench. By the looks of it he's got one chance of getting that out before he's drilling out those studs. Softly softly is the way I reckon. Loads of heat though.

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[theoneandonly]

where are you , there is a man in Hayward's Heath who travels to do this sort of thing . he is good.

 

[oddjob]

I'd strongly suggest you complete a Google search for "Spark Erosion Services Near Me".

FYI: Spark erosion AKA Electrical Discharge Machining only erodes the fastening and not the substrate (housing), consequently it's the go-to method for removing rivets, screws and bolts in Aeronautical Engineering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining

 

[AndyB_11]

I'd strongly suggest you complete a Google search for "Spark Erosion Services Near Me".

FYI: Spark erosion AKA Electrical Discharge Machining only erodes the fastening and not the substrate (housing), consequently it's the go-to method for removing rivets, screws and bolts in Aeronautical Engineering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining

Every time I’ve seen spark eroding done it was a messy process with no guarantee of not damaging the parent material, especially when done with the part in situ. I’d be more inclined to get someone to make a sleeve to fit over what’s left and use it to guide a drill dead centre of the existing studs. Once you’ve got that use a left hand drill and 9/10 times the stud will spin out.

That’s not a guess, it’s part of my day to day job and it’s very, very rare I have to fit a helicoil insert to repair the threads. Patience is the most important part and if the hole you start using the guide is off centre use a Dremel to bring it back in line.

 

[Timpo]

Easy job if heads are off the bike.
I have done a few for folk in here.

 

[ralphy]

Thanks all for the replies.
Looks like welding is going to be next go-to, so I'll need to get hold of someone who's got a machine to have a go.
I'll update when things change.

R

 

[mikeyboy]

I’ve tried most methods to get the broken studs out,
Now I just whip the heads off so they can be set up on a mill.
It’s not worth the hassle and the risk of scrapping the heads to attempt in situ.

 

[Posh Pete]

I’ve tried most methods to get the broken studs out,
Now I just whip the heads off so they can be set up on a mill.
It’s not worth the hassle and the risk of scrapping the heads to attempt in situ.

That’s what I ended up doing on my 11RS. Easy enough to whip them off and replace. Get someone else to do the tricky bits!

 

[Cook1e]

Maybe it wa just mine, but...

I have had similar problems on maybe half a dozen studs in my time buggering about with bikes and most of them succumbed to having a nut, or a washer then a nut if they sheared flush, MIGged on.

When I tried it with my 1150GS a few years ago, repeated attempts failed to get the weld to stick. It was like trying to weld steel to cast iron. I eventually resorted to drilling it out, but it was a right pain.

When you get it sorted, replace them with stainless studs and brass nuts, plus a generous dab of high-temperature anti-seize (not Coppaslip!)

 

[adm1]

I wouldn't recommend an impact wrench. By the looks of it he's got one chance of getting that out before he's drilling out those studs. Softly softly is the way I reckon. Loads of heat though.

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That's a fair point, too much torque from an air gun might just snap the stud off shorter. But - a lower torque electric impact would give it the vibration without just mullering it. I've got a little Bosch electric rattle gun that doesn't have massive amounts of torque but does seem to slowly get most things moving nonetheless.

 

[theoneandonly]

i have not had much luck with welding nuts to studs.

you would be better off cutting the studs with a dremel ,flush to the head , get the centre punch mark in the middle , strap the bike to the bench , so it CANNOT move .

get some ...lets say 8 x 4mm drill bits , 4 x 6mm drills and a couple of 6.7 ( or a bit bigger ) mm drills , and a taper tap and tap wrench .

get a 2nd pair of eyes , you look in 1 plane ,friend looks in the other ,for when you are doing the drilling , speed is not your friend , slow and steady is the way .....this will help to drill accurately .

now you have them drilled to the tapping size , CAREFULLY run the tap in , i say taper tap 'cos believe it or not , the thread in the head is NOT parallel .

i , had broken 4 on my 1150 , i cut off the header pipe , and removed he flanges with an angle grinder , i got the man from Hayward's Heath to remove all the studs , it took him 4-5 hours plus 2hrs travelling . he wanted £150 including travelling from base to j9-m25.....i gave him £200 cash/no receipt .

HE SAID NOT TO RUN A BOTTOM TAP DOWN , and he told me to use a taper tap.

ps , if your side-bar said what county you lived in , people might know someone local to you .

i now have allen bolts in , and every service i crack them and do them up.

 

[ralphy]

^^^ Thanks for that and location updated.

R