Now, there's a challenge
Michelin Pilot 4 long life on LC 2014
- Thread starter biggeorge
- Start date
An update on my experience of Pilot Road 4 Trails.
Frankly, I'm disappointed.
On the rear, I'm down to the treadwear indicators on the centre portion, having done less than 10 000 km.
Granted, I commute 172 Km a day at high speeds. But the Metzeler Tourance Nexts I had on were subjected to the same treatment, and were good from 17 000 Km (when I got the bike) to about 34 000 Km.
And now that the rear is quite well squared off, the PR4s are starting to feel very unstable and 'flighty' at speeds over 165 Km/h or so. Accelerating hard from 170 or so, I get a distinct weave that gets progressively worse as speed increases.
The Michelins are also more prone to 'darting' and wandering at very low (lane-splitting) to medium speeds. Given an uneven or cambered surface, they are also making it difficult to pull up in a dead straight line.
For some reason, the rear also picks up punctures like crazy. I've had three in the last 11 weeks.
The Tourance Nexts did none of these things, even though they became reluctant to turn at high speeds when they wore to this extent.
On the plus side, the PR4s have given very good wet-weather performance.
At the last tyre change, I kept the old front Tourance Next.
It will be going back on the bike at the next tyre change and will be joined by another rear Tourance Next in 170/60 R17.
Frankly, I'm disappointed.
On the rear, I'm down to the treadwear indicators on the centre portion, having done less than 10 000 km.
Granted, I commute 172 Km a day at high speeds. But the Metzeler Tourance Nexts I had on were subjected to the same treatment, and were good from 17 000 Km (when I got the bike) to about 34 000 Km.
And now that the rear is quite well squared off, the PR4s are starting to feel very unstable and 'flighty' at speeds over 165 Km/h or so. Accelerating hard from 170 or so, I get a distinct weave that gets progressively worse as speed increases.
The Michelins are also more prone to 'darting' and wandering at very low (lane-splitting) to medium speeds. Given an uneven or cambered surface, they are also making it difficult to pull up in a dead straight line.
For some reason, the rear also picks up punctures like crazy. I've had three in the last 11 weeks.
The Tourance Nexts did none of these things, even though they became reluctant to turn at high speeds when they wore to this extent.
On the plus side, the PR4s have given very good wet-weather performance.
At the last tyre change, I kept the old front Tourance Next.
It will be going back on the bike at the next tyre change and will be joined by another rear Tourance Next in 170/60 R17.
Horses for courses I guess. Your ambient temperature will be higher than ours on average so perhaps the PR4 are less suited to your climate. Do tyre makes ship different compounds to warmer countries? In northern Europe the PR4 are excellent and for me the all weather grip is more important than wear rate.
I doubt that a manufacturer would manufacture different compound tyres exclusively for different territories. There's more marketing opportunity in giving the choice of all compounds in all territories. Makes yer WC pilot feel more like Loris Capirossi.
Ambient temperature vs. relative wear rates is a good argument, but personally, I'd gladly trade some of that grip for harder wear and more puncture resistance.
I kid you not - my rear PR4 now has seven repaired punctures.
I paid careful attention when pulling out all foreign objects, and when using the reaming tool. Most of the newest punctures were caused by what looked like fine wire-brush bristles. Anyone's guess where they came from, but I'm willing to bet they'd have made very little impact on my old Tourance Nexts.
The reaming tool went through the carcass very easily. It doesn't feel like there's steel cording in there - certainly not compared to repairing the one and only puncture I had on the rear Tourance Next (caused by a fairly hefty nail).
I second that.
A second set will definitely be my next tyres.mcinlb
Registered user
+1 for me , PR4 rear tyre - nerg nail , 1st puncture in years. Still great tyres though......
The final nail in the coffin.
Actually, no - in the tyre carcass.
I was making my way home on Monday evening, ducking around a line of stalled traffic, and ran over what I found out later was a piece of vehicle debris. No visible sharp edges. Heard that sickening farting sound, the bike's rear end dropped, and all of a sudden she's handling like she's made of cooked celery.
A quick inspection of the tyre tread revealed a straight cut about 30mm long, right through the carcass. Looked like someone slashed the tyre with a butcher's knife.
Long story short: rear tyre unrepairable, and I'm 86 Km from home. A co-operative effort between my stepdad and girlfriend got the rear wheel from my K1200S to me so I could get back, and I finally got to bed after one in the morning.
Thanks, Michelin. Thanks a whole heap.
Yesterday morning, I had my old front Tourance Next re-fitted (plenty of meat left), joined with a new Tourance Next rear.
Just as good as I remember them.
Yes, the PR4 Trails are sticky and light and brilliant in the wet and confidence-inspiring yes yes.
But they wear like race tyres ("20% better wear than PR3s", say Michelin. Oh yeah? On what? A 100cc pit bike being ridden by a 20Kg midget?), and fall over dead at the first sign of a foreign object.
So if you keep your LC primarily as a Sunday toy, and do track days on it, they're brilliant. But for the riding I do in the real world, if there's a shortage of Nexts, I'll garage the bike and ride something else while I wait for the shipment, rather than buy PR4s again.
Actually, no - in the tyre carcass.
I was making my way home on Monday evening, ducking around a line of stalled traffic, and ran over what I found out later was a piece of vehicle debris. No visible sharp edges. Heard that sickening farting sound, the bike's rear end dropped, and all of a sudden she's handling like she's made of cooked celery.
A quick inspection of the tyre tread revealed a straight cut about 30mm long, right through the carcass. Looked like someone slashed the tyre with a butcher's knife.
Long story short: rear tyre unrepairable, and I'm 86 Km from home. A co-operative effort between my stepdad and girlfriend got the rear wheel from my K1200S to me so I could get back, and I finally got to bed after one in the morning.
Thanks, Michelin. Thanks a whole heap.
Yesterday morning, I had my old front Tourance Next re-fitted (plenty of meat left), joined with a new Tourance Next rear.
Just as good as I remember them.
Yes, the PR4 Trails are sticky and light and brilliant in the wet and confidence-inspiring yes yes.
But they wear like race tyres ("20% better wear than PR3s", say Michelin. Oh yeah? On what? A 100cc pit bike being ridden by a 20Kg midget?), and fall over dead at the first sign of a foreign object.
So if you keep your LC primarily as a Sunday toy, and do track days on it, they're brilliant. But for the riding I do in the real world, if there's a shortage of Nexts, I'll garage the bike and ride something else while I wait for the shipment, rather than buy PR4s again.
I agree that the PR3 are quite soft and more vulnerable to punctures and it sounds the same with the PR4.
I had PR3's on a Kwaka Versys 650 that I rode to work every day in low to medium speed tight CBD real world daily riding. I used to get 1-2 punctures every few months. Ride about 10,000 klm PA.
I have had 2 GS's in the last 2 years with Tourance Next and now Anakee 3 and have had 1 puncture on the TN's.
To me both tyres do the job ok but if I am honest I felt the TN's gave me more cornering confidence. I do not recall anytime in my riding that the TN's unexpectedly broke traction. The A3's move around a little more in corners, I don't like to really push them. To me, both tyres are similar in the wet, they grip well.
I got 9000 klm out of the TN rear and the front was left as was ok. The A3's have only got 2800 klm so hard to say how they are wearing, they look ok.
The PR3 & PR4 are kevlar belted I believe (I stand to be corrected) which makes them very easy to plug and stay plugged vs steel belts.
Questions? Answers!
So now that I've had Tourance Nexts back on for 7 weeks, extensive-mileage experience of the PR4s can be compared directly with extensive-mileage experience of the Tourance Nexts - without the 'learning curve' of a new bike thrown into the mix.
Some constants:
I weigh 82 Kg.
Having tried several different combinations of tyre pressures for high-speed tarmac running, I always find myself coming back to the BMW factory recommendations: 2.5 Bar front, 2.9 Bar rear.
99% of my riding is solo. My default ESA suspension settings are:
Preload: 1 of 3.
Damping: Normal.
Riding mode: Road.
On the WC, the TNs feel stable and docile. Under hard, high-speed changes of direction, they feel unfazed. They have a good rate of wear, considering that I do at least 860 Km a week.
Compared back-to-back with the TNs, the PR4s steer about 30% faster, with about a 10% loss of stability when changing direction very hard. But what they take away in terms of that loss of stability, they give back in terms of sheer grip.
But what's more important is the way the bike feels with the different tyres. If I compare the two, I'd say that with the TNs, the bike feels like it's wearing expensive - but heavy - hiking boots. Yes, it can dance in them. But you get the feeling it would rather not.
With the PR4s, it feels like swapping the hiking boots for a pair of lightweight running shoes. Suddenly, new possibilities abound.
Wet-weather performance: The PR4s are the only tyres I've ever ridden, on any bike, on which it feels like there's no loss of grip at all in the wet. No sporadic breaks in traction, no skittishness, no traction control cut-ins. When I had the PR4s mounted this summer, I had two or three big 'moments' in which I ran through deep (20-30mm) standing water at between 120 and 140 Km/h. The tyres gave no indication they'd even hit water. I was simply out the other side as if nothing had happened.
The TNs are good in the wet. But they're nowhere near that good. In numbers, I'd say wet-weather performance of the PR4s is about 30% better than the TNs.
So, for me, the perspective depends on how many bikes are available to spread the load of a grinding commute. If I only have the WC, it'll be Nexts. But when my F800GS hybrid project is complete and I can alternate between the two bikes, I may be strongly tempted by another set of PR4s. (Except that this time, you won't catch me without a good puncture-repair kit and hand pump.)
So now that I've had Tourance Nexts back on for 7 weeks, extensive-mileage experience of the PR4s can be compared directly with extensive-mileage experience of the Tourance Nexts - without the 'learning curve' of a new bike thrown into the mix.
Some constants:
I weigh 82 Kg.
Having tried several different combinations of tyre pressures for high-speed tarmac running, I always find myself coming back to the BMW factory recommendations: 2.5 Bar front, 2.9 Bar rear.
99% of my riding is solo. My default ESA suspension settings are:
Preload: 1 of 3.
Damping: Normal.
Riding mode: Road.
On the WC, the TNs feel stable and docile. Under hard, high-speed changes of direction, they feel unfazed. They have a good rate of wear, considering that I do at least 860 Km a week.
Compared back-to-back with the TNs, the PR4s steer about 30% faster, with about a 10% loss of stability when changing direction very hard. But what they take away in terms of that loss of stability, they give back in terms of sheer grip.
But what's more important is the way the bike feels with the different tyres. If I compare the two, I'd say that with the TNs, the bike feels like it's wearing expensive - but heavy - hiking boots. Yes, it can dance in them. But you get the feeling it would rather not.
With the PR4s, it feels like swapping the hiking boots for a pair of lightweight running shoes. Suddenly, new possibilities abound.
Wet-weather performance: The PR4s are the only tyres I've ever ridden, on any bike, on which it feels like there's no loss of grip at all in the wet. No sporadic breaks in traction, no skittishness, no traction control cut-ins. When I had the PR4s mounted this summer, I had two or three big 'moments' in which I ran through deep (20-30mm) standing water at between 120 and 140 Km/h. The tyres gave no indication they'd even hit water. I was simply out the other side as if nothing had happened.
The TNs are good in the wet. But they're nowhere near that good. In numbers, I'd say wet-weather performance of the PR4s is about 30% better than the TNs.
So, for me, the perspective depends on how many bikes are available to spread the load of a grinding commute. If I only have the WC, it'll be Nexts. But when my F800GS hybrid project is complete and I can alternate between the two bikes, I may be strongly tempted by another set of PR4s. (Except that this time, you won't catch me without a good puncture-repair kit and hand pump.)
Titto
Registered user
95 quid delivered within 2 days from tyreleader.co.uk
Used Tyreleader for my last two rear tyres, a PR4 for the GSA AND A PR1 for the GS, both delivered from Germany in two days. Can't fault the price or service.
I paid £79 for my fron PR4 delivered from Oponeo.co.uk Ordered last Thursday, arrived yesterday. Being fitted on Saturday for £20. My local BMW dealer quoted £149 for the same thing!
Titto
Registered user
Yeah I looked on there but there price was nothing like that! Went with tyreleader in the end, but you got an absolute bargain. Getting mine fitted for £9 quid from a local bike dealer in Ilkeston (Granby motors), or £15 quid from Jervis' in Ripley. Either way I've saved a load of money compared to the mental quotes I've had - even from my old trusted mobile tyre man.... oh well, I'm fed up of pissing money away so doing it this way now!
Folks, what tyre pressures have you all been running on your PR4 Trials??
I have done just over 3K miles on a rear PR4 and its not got much life left in the middle and is squaring off. The handling at slower speeds is starting to be compromised as well as it squares off.
Thinking that the GT might be the one to goto for the riding im doing as the next tyre since it has the harder centre.
I have done just over 3K miles on a rear PR4 and its not got much life left in the middle and is squaring off. The handling at slower speeds is starting to be compromised as well as it squares off.
Thinking that the GT might be the one to goto for the riding im doing as the next tyre since it has the harder centre.
Titto
Registered user
2.5 2.9
I am on my second set. First did 5.5K including trip over Pyrenees. I run Trail front at 2.4 and GT back at 2.8. Handling far better than the previous Next's and was superb in the Alps riding with mate on MV Augusta.
Aye its the PR4 Trail i have both front and back, think i will get the GT on the rear next one, i had been running 33psi (2.3) front and 38psi (2.6)rear, have changed to 36/42 and doent notice any handling difference and since this is what Mitchelin recommend i thought i better go with it...
fredaroony
Registered user
Old thread but I hate starting new ones when there is an existing one..
I'm down to 1mm from the wear marker on the rear PR4 trail after just 9200klms. I thought I would get longer out of these but from reading this thread it seems about right.
I will go at least one more rear of these but would change if there was something as good as a road tyre plus quiet.
I'm down to 1mm from the wear marker on the rear PR4 trail after just 9200klms. I thought I would get longer out of these but from reading this thread it seems about right.
I will go at least one more rear of these but would change if there was something as good as a road tyre plus quiet.
