Mm! Interesting

[GS-Jonesy]

Ok so you are saying that any BMW updates to the fuelling are effectively ignored - so if BMW decided for what ever reason a safety update was required to the fuelling then it has no effect on a bike that has been re-mapped by Hilltop?

No - not necessarily. Think of the BMW firmware as the parameters within which the Hilltop update can be applied. If BMW release an update that moves the parameters the Hilltop update will simply operate within these new parameters.

You have to keep in mind what the BMW OEM firmware is trying to achieve (acceptable performance whilst achieving all of the Euro emissions bollox). The Hilltop addition will use all of the same data collected by the various sensors but tweak the inputs to provide better performance/fuel efficiency/smoother etc etc


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[GS-Jonesy]

I need to mention that i am in no way an expert or even a partial expert in this field.
I was merely fascinated to hear how this worked whilst waiting for my bike to be re-mapped.
The way i have described it is roughly how it was explained to me.
All i know is that coupled with a de-cat set of headers and the re-map the bike pulls very nicely through the entire rev range.

Torque wheelies rather than power wheels are easily achieved....

+1 - what he said

I too have no "official" expertise in this area. Just a keen interest to understand and a few opinion which you can take or leave as you see fit.


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[Max_W]

Stop me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression shift assist wasnt to be used for 1st and 2nd gear?

That's what I always thought until recently, and I avoided using GSAP with those gears, but after it was replaced recently under warranty the gears now shift completely smoothly through all gears, including, 1st and 2nd!

 

[MrFell]

Ah, are you saying you actually spoke to Geoff, asked him direct questions and he answered them? Not a bad way to get some definitive answers

And yeah, couldn't agree more about what a positive difference a Hilltop tune makes

Andres

Yup, i was genuinely interested in how the re-map worked. I have a vague knowledge of PCs and Geoff used the analogy i referred to.
It all made sense to me...

 

[Engineer]

No - not necessarily. Think of the BMW firmware as the parameters within which the Hilltop update can be applied. If BMW release an update that moves the parameters the Hilltop update will simply operate within these new parameters.

You have to keep in mind what the BMW OEM firmware is trying to achieve (acceptable performance whilst achieving all of the Euro emissions bollox). The Hilltop addition will use all of the same data collected by the various sensors but tweak the inputs to provide better performance/fuel efficiency/smoother etc etc


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Now that just confuses what I thought had now be made clear and contradicts what Mr Fell said! He is saying that BMW fuelling changes are ignored and you are saying that the BMW changes are not ignored.

As Mr. Fell claims to have got his info from the horses mouth, I will assume that to be the case for now. If this is so then I would be concerned about doing this to my bike because any subsequent BMW updates won't have the effect that BMW were expecting it to have - and they may have been made for very good reason.

Thanks for all the intelligent replies.

 

[karlp]

Jesus this does go on and on.

An engine map tells the ECU how much fuel to add and how much ignition advance/retard to apply at any point of rpm and load.

Once it is set correctly the only real parameters that can affect it are fuel grade and air flow ( air filter). Fuel grade is changed by the knock sensors.

Why would there be any safety upgrades? Because BmW suspected that the fuel / air ratio was incorrect and may have a lean mixture. This would have already been sorted in the Hilltop retune.

I would suspect zzz Hilltop copy the original BMW fuel map and place the copy in a different part of the chip ( space will be available). They then alter this copy to suit and produce the new map.

All that happens then is that the ECU is pointed to this new region ( quite easy) .

Any alterations done to the original map will not affect the new map as they are in different regions on the chip.

 

[Skid06]

if i bump into Engineer id gladly offer him a spin on my Hilltop LC and let him decide, went a spin today, first of the year and its very very impressive how it builds its power to 130mph my other bikes a 1299 hilltopped panigale as a comparison with 200 RWHP

 

[andylel]

Indeed but hopefully my response in post 8 will re-seal the lid. I will continue to breathe whilst we find out though.


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Well it would seem that the lid wasn't sealed after all. For those that are bored with hilltop threads (which was never my intention for this one) then I apologise. For those that enjoy them, you're welcome. *bows and exits stage left*

 

[bod]

My bike has been 'Hilltopped' and the update has most definitely worked. I am also very, very confident it has not overwritten the work done by Geoff as my dealer knows it has been done and commented on how different it felt to standard bikes.


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I have yet to see a used bike for sale at a Motorrad dealer with "Hilltopped" as a selling point?

 

[andylel]

I have yet to see a used bike for sale at a Motorrad dealer with "Hilltopped" as a selling point?

I'm struggling to think why you would if I'm honest.

 

[bod]

I'm struggling to think why you would if I'm honest.

TE Spec, Keyless ride, Hilltopped ... anything to make a sale and a few quid!

I rather suspect if I mentioned Hilltop within the perimeter of a Motorrad dealership, I would get the same blank "don't know what the feck you're talking about" look I get when I mention anything else BMW want to hide.

 

[Nutty]

if i bump into Engineer id gladly offer him a spin on my Hilltop LC and let him decide, went a spin today, first of the year and its very very impressive how it builds its power to 130mph my other bikes a 1299 hilltopped panigale as a comparison with 200 RWHP

Same here. I was on mine today, and the way it delivers the power is like no other GS I've had. It's obviously not as quick as my XR, but in every day riding, over a selection of different roads, I doubt there'd be a massive amount in it.

 

[bod]

Same here. I was on mine today, and the way it delivers the power is like no other GS I've had. It's obviously not as quick as my XR, but in every day riding, over a selection of different roads, I doubt there'd be a massive amount in it.

I wonder how next years Euro 4 will affect performance?

There is a definite flat spot in the power curve on my bike & I have no doubt it's to do with keeping within the regulations.
But it's really not an issue & not worth a re-map in my opinion.

Makes you wonder just what performance and fuel economy could be achieved without the meddling beurocrats?

 

[Nutty]

I wonder how next years Euro 4 will affect performance?

There is a definite flat spot in the power curve on my bike & I have no doubt it's to do with keeping within the regulations.
But it's really not an issue & not worth a re-map in my opinion.

Makes you wonder just what performance and fuel economy could be achieved without the meddling beurocrats?

I think Geoff will be even busier, TBH.

The difference between a standard bike with stock exhaust compared to a Hilltopped bike with a full system is night and day. If only BMW were "allowed" to make the bike like this from the factory.

 

[Mistacat]

Jesus this does go on and on.

An engine map tells the ECU how much fuel to add and how much ignition advance/retard to apply at any point of rpm and load.

Once it is set correctly the only real parameters that can affect it are fuel grade and air flow ( air filter). Fuel grade is changed by the knock sensors.

Why would there be any safety upgrades? Because BmW suspected that the fuel / air ratio was incorrect and may have a lean mixture. This would have already been sorted in the Hilltop retune.

I would suspect zzz Hilltop copy the original BMW fuel map and place the copy in a different part of the chip ( space will be available). They then alter this copy to suit and produce the new map.

All that happens then is that the ECU is pointed to this new region ( quite easy) .

Any alterations done to the original map will not affect the new map as they are in different regions on the chip.

This ties in with how hilltop explained it to me.
He creates another partition to download his map to, then alter the BIOS to use his partition.
However as I am a keen to keep using the closed and open loop fueling as original, but use lambda offset`s. so prefer to use the AF-XIED`s.
Each to their own.