More confused than ever

[EPP]

Hi I have posted a couple of theads now to do with my non starting issue, i have checked all of the switches in failsafe system, i have checked the starter relay, I have checked the ignition switch, all fine. I have now got to a point where if i remove the igniton starter relay short the 2 pins for the starter which then turns the engine over put the relay back it starts fine on the button. leave it for 20 minutes and turn ignition on nothing no noise nothing on pressing the starter switch . Short out the ignition relay pins, starter motor turns over no problem, put relay back and it starts everytime on the button turn ignition on and off and it starts on the button leave it 20 mins and nothing, frustrating the hell out of me anyone else had this or any thoughts on it, its stumping me at the moment. Cheers

 

[Karlread]

Steptoe will know, the Yoda of all things BMW R series......

 

[uncle dick]

Starter brushes? Does the starter relay click when you get the non-start condition? If so, does the small terminal on the motor go live at the same time? If yes to both then it's a starter problem. Pretty simple to diagnose with a piece of wire & a bulb.

 

[EPP]

Starter brushes? Does the starter relay click when you get the non-start condition? If so, does the small terminal on the motor go live at the same time? If yes to both then it's a starter problem. Pretty simple to diagnose with a piece of wire & a bulb.

Hi thanks for that, when shorting the starter relay pins the starter spins freely, when the strter button is pressed and it doesn't work the black wire at the starter does not show +12v but the confusing thing is when I short out the starter pins and spin the motor after that its fine on the starter button and starts on every press and it shows +11V at the black wire on the starter motor.I was wondering if its the motoronic relay that could be a problem so i swopped the relay around for another and it wanted to start cool I thought left it 5/10mins and back to square one, so its not the Motronic relay. So still stumped at the moment. Cheers Ell

 

[uncle dick]

Hi thanks for that, when shorting the starter relay pins the starter spins freely, when the strter button is pressed and it doesn't work the black wire at the starter does not show +12v but the confusing thing is when I short out the starter pins and spin the motor after that its fine on the starter button and starts on every press and it shows +11V at the black wire on the starter motor.I was wondering if its the motoronic relay that could be a problem so i swopped the relay around for another and it wanted to start cool I thought left it 5/10mins and back to square one, so its not the Motronic relay. So still stumped at the moment. Cheers Ell

When you say 'starter pins' do you mean the terminals on the relay plug, or the two big connections actually on the starter?

 

[EPP]

When you say 'starter pins' do you mean the terminals on the relay plug, or the two big connections actually on the starter?

Sorry should have been clearer the starter relay pins on the white connector the starter relay goes into.

 

[uncle dick]

Can you prise off the top of the starter relay? If so then you can check feeds and earths when it's not starting. Could well be a dry solder joint inside the relay. By the way, use a bulb and not a multimeter - they don't draw enough current to test low resistance circuits like this.

 

[EPP]

Can you prise off the top of the starter relay? If so then you can check feeds and earths when it's not starting. Could well be a dry solder joint inside the relay. By the way, use a bulb and not a multimeter - they don't draw enough current to test low resistance circuits like this.

Cheers got hold of another starter relay today tried that same result so i know its not a dry joint situation in the relay itself. With regard to the pins the relay switch pin 30 is +12v all the time Pin 87 is earth, pin 86 is earth, pin 85 is the switched +12 so should go high on pushing the starter button when in the non starting state it does not read any change. So my logic is that it has be before the wiring to the relay which is why I checked all of the switches in the safety circuit and all were working correctly, I will try and go through all of the wiring back to the relay tommorow and just pin it all out. The only other thing is a datatool alarm im wondering if this is immobilising it. I can wire that out tommorow as well just to make sure. The alarm seems to switch on and off ok and goes into alarm ok but i did note that on disconnecting the battery it does not sound so sounds like its internal battery has gone . ....Thanks for the replies they are much appreciated.....Ell

 

[uncle dick]

AAAAaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!

You've got an aftermarket alarm. ALWAYS the first place to look.

 

[flatdog]

AAAAaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!

You've got an aftermarket alarm. ALWAYS the first place to look.

Yes, the cursed erratic immobiliser rears its ugly head.

 

[DrFarkoff]

What they say !

If I fit an alarm for anyone now I tend to fit it and give them a Link to remove the immobiliser section or If you "really" want an alarm I suggest a Loud as F*** flashing lights Trembler switch activated one and forget about the immobiliser circuits as you can easily install a switch on the starter wire

AAAAaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!

You've got an aftermarket alarm. ALWAYS the first place to look.

Yes, the cursed erratic immobiliser rears its ugly head.

 

[EPP]

Cheers guys , im going to look at it this morning, its a Datatool system 3 which was fitted to the bike at the time of purchase and was on it when I bought it. Ive been in touch with Datatool who have told me how to wire around it to see if its the alarm causing the issue. Onwards and upwards......Ell

 

[EPP]

Cheers guys , im going to look at it this morning, its a Datatool system 3 which was fitted to the bike at the time of purchase and was on it when I bought it. Ive been in touch with Datatool who have told me how to wire around it to see if its the alarm causing the issue. Onwards and upwards......Ell

You were all correct 10/10 alarm was knackered days of trying all sorts and changing a few bits, never mind we live and learn as they say, bike is now spot on starts on the button everytime and I understand the bikes electrics a lot more than I did....many thanks for the replies really appreciated