Was that by RoSPA or the local group?
I think our group includes a copy of Roadcraft in the local group joining fee, but never seen a Tee shirt or anything from HQ.
More ROSPA bollox
- Thread starter King Rat
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I think our group includes a copy of Roadcraft in the local group joining fee, but never seen a Tee shirt or anything from HQ.
they've done you a favour, as bad as wearing a Polite vest
All joking apart I wouldn’t put a sticker on my bike, even if they were free. Everyone makes a mistake from time to time, even god like GS riders, if you had a IAM/RoSPA sticker there would be much more piss taking.they've done you a favour, as bad as wearing a Polite vest
No way I would have a RoSPA sticker on my bike, just asking for trouble!
I’m happy to pay the sub for the refresh and retest every three years.
I need to have it for blood biking but also the examiner gave me some great feedback this year.
He spotted a bunch of things I could change to make me safer - surely that’s worth the cash???
I’m happy to pay the sub for the refresh and retest every three years.
I need to have it for blood biking but also the examiner gave me some great feedback this year.
He spotted a bunch of things I could change to make me safer - surely that’s worth the cash???
I did my IAM a few years ago and added a bit of polish to my riding skills, but nothing major. Passed the test and almost got a F1rst but blew it with an overtake the assessor wasn't keen on (so much for "making progress").
I stuck with IAM and paid my subs for a few years, then it went all corporate with "Sarah Sillars" or somebody as CEO on a fat wage. At that point I severed my ties as it felt less about rider/driver safety and more about revenue generation for those at the top.
I stuck with IAM and paid my subs for a few years, then it went all corporate with "Sarah Sillars" or somebody as CEO on a fat wage. At that point I severed my ties as it felt less about rider/driver safety and more about revenue generation for those at the top.
He makes some very good points. IAM observers are not coaches neither are they instructors; none of them are trained in methods of instruction and their mantra consists of one just one philosophy - make progress. In other words just go quick. As a professional instructor of many years who has been assessed by the DVSA and am still regularly assessed and I have a DVSA recognised qualification to deliver Advanced Training I have had many encounters with arrogant IAM Observers who seriously believe that because of their own self-proclaimed status there is nothing anybody can teach them. Many of our students who have passed DAS have joined the local IAM group and have crashed whilst under observation because they were being pushed into making progress - in other words they were being forced to ride out of their comfort zone until the inevitable happened.
There are no doubt some groups, in both RoSPA and the IAM, that still tend to push the mantra "make progress", but this is very rare nowadays. Most groups expect the candidate to make progress when it is safe to do so, but not to exceed the speed limit, and certainly not to push them to do so until they have picked up all the other skills and are confident, and safe, to do so.
There also some groups whose observers have the arrogant attitude you describe, but they are very few and far between nowadays.
RoSPA and IAM observers are also regularly assessed, particularly National Observers who are assessed by selected local examiners or regional managers.
In fact the IAM have been striving to improve and standardise the observation process and guidance given (or training for want of a better word, though they are not supposed to use this word for fear of upsetting the DVSA). For example, all Local Observers, who were trained and assessed in house, have to become National Observers by April 2025. My group, in particular, have been giving intensive training and guidance to our observers to achieved this.
It is all very well saying that some of your ex-students have gone to advanced groups and crashed, but as you weren't there you can't say for sure why they crashed, or whether they would have crashed at some point in their early riding career even if they were not taking an advanced course. It may well be that their observer was pushing them too hard, all I can say is that it shouldn't happen, no observer should push their associate beyond their capabilities, and I'm fairly sure it doesn't happen in my group.
There are two observers in my group that own their own successful riding schools, they are both happy with the advanced course we run.
RoSPA used to give a sticker when you passed your first test with them (I got one in 2010) and the IAM used too, I don't know if they still do but I think you can buy them. No Tee shirts though!
I don’t recognise Lord Snootys experience, my IAM tutor many years ago was all about progress but not at the risk of crashing. I moved to RoSPA because I thought the local IAM group took the wrong approach whereas my local RoSPA group put safety first.
In our group we have twice yearly tutor training, which includes practical as well as classroom. I’ve not heard of an associate crashing during training and I’ve over ten years as a group tutor.
In our group we have twice yearly tutor training, which includes practical as well as classroom. I’ve not heard of an associate crashing during training and I’ve over ten years as a group tutor.
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Insurance asks if you have passed an advanced test (IAM / ROSPA etc). It did not ask last time if I was a member 
Depends who you insure with, IAM Surety have a clause that they will check membership, whether they do or not is another question. But it is another way to argue a claim I guess. Bikesure asked if I was a member of an advanced organisation. The other odd thing is, a lot recognise any IAM pass, but specifically ask for RoSPA Gold, even though there are two other grades.Insurance asks if you have passed an advanced test (IAM / ROSPA etc). It did not ask last time if I was a member
Simon,
An alternative is don’t pay and just let your membership lapse.
This is what I do, then evert 5 or 6 years I pay for a retest. This reminds me, I must be due a test as my last was in 2019. I may do the IAM for a change.
An alternative is don’t pay and just let your membership lapse.
This is what I do, then evert 5 or 6 years I pay for a retest. This reminds me, I must be due a test as my last was in 2019. I may do the IAM for a change.
@ lord snooty
It’s quite interesting this thread, in my own experience, (and I’ve done about 9 or 10 rospa or IAM tests)
There’s a mixed bag of folk involved, both as observers and examiners.
First thing to remember is observers are volunteers and as such we ought to be grateful for the input they have to help others.
Examiners too are trying to improve the standards we have so we have to accept it’s not a perfect system.
I’ve been tested by only 1 examiner who in my opinion was a truly excellent.
He was able to identify, explain and offer feedback in a good manner. He didn’t just fault find.
The rest were a mixed bag. Including one who I wouldn’t trust with a shopping trolley.
Generally speaking they all do a good job. Yes, they sometimes lack certain abilities which would be useful or have the attitude mentioned.
But it’s better to have someone who works at 75% rather than none at all.
It’s quite interesting this thread, in my own experience, (and I’ve done about 9 or 10 rospa or IAM tests)
There’s a mixed bag of folk involved, both as observers and examiners.
First thing to remember is observers are volunteers and as such we ought to be grateful for the input they have to help others.
Examiners too are trying to improve the standards we have so we have to accept it’s not a perfect system.
I’ve been tested by only 1 examiner who in my opinion was a truly excellent.
He was able to identify, explain and offer feedback in a good manner. He didn’t just fault find.
The rest were a mixed bag. Including one who I wouldn’t trust with a shopping trolley.
Generally speaking they all do a good job. Yes, they sometimes lack certain abilities which would be useful or have the attitude mentioned.
But it’s better to have someone who works at 75% rather than none at all.
I'm with stever1 on this.
I didn't renew my membership when I took my last Rospa in 2020 and will just pay for the test in future. I'm due a re-test so probably next year now.
We deliver a training programme on behalf of the West Mercia police Safer Roads Partnership in Worcs, Hereford and Salop, they have funding so the course is heavily subsidised. It is called Take Control and for many it is a first introduction to more Advanced Riding. The day starts at 9am and at least the first 90 minutes is spent in the classroom with lessons on IPSGA and demonstrations of how it should be applied in a number of situations such as cornering making extensive use of whiteboard visuals and Q&A, this is the very important education phase. We focus on setting the bike up, better positioning, braking and gearing, turning in points and counter steering. We get them to start using lower gears in corners so they are using the bike's mid-range - many bikers are often in too high a gear and as a result find the bike "runs on" in corners and takes them wide. Our emphasis at all times is to improve their forward vision, get them to look further ahead, teach them to read the road, good throttle sense, risk assessment, improving view ahead, hazard perception and above all riding with restraint. Before we go on the road we tell them that they are to ride at 80% of their ability and that they are not to try and go fast - if they put all of the above into place then they find that they are riding more quickly but not because they are forcing it but because they are smoother and applying the system. At no time do I, or my fellow instructors, tell them to "make progress" over the radio or urge them to go more quickly or scold them for not going quickly enough.
None of our students have ever crashed learning Advanced Riding skills.
We promote Take Control at events such as Bike4Life and to be frank I am constantly dismayed at the number of bikers who respond with "I don't need any more training I'm with the IAM" "There's nothing you can teach me mate" and many other responses on a similar vein. It is incredibly arrogant and I wonder how or where they get these attitudes from. No matter how many years any of us have been riding there is always something to learn and we should all be looking to improve with continued practice and education.
Re your last paragraph, totally agree. I think to some riders it just polishes up there ego, not there riding ability.
I once had a de brief after a ROSPA retest. He made a comment about missing an overtake. I pointed out that at that point it was a double solid white line. He took the hump and just replied there was plenty of view, it would have been an easy OT. I explained it would have been an illegal move , I further explained
that he maybe should read the Highway Code , then learn to ride legally.
I then got the I’m a police rider and an Examiner. He TOTALLY failed the attitude / arrogance test.
At that point I explained he wasnt an examiner, he was assessing, totally different. I then explained i was a driving examiner, all groups, for both the MOD and DSA. Along with all the other qualifications re driving.
That was the point that I left the ROSPA/IAM scene. To much attitude, not enough skills shown by either SOME groups and the examiners.
In general though the rank and file members are good.
What I read there is not a lot different to what we, as an IAM group do, so we are not singing from different pages.
My group assists Lancashire Police, along with other IAM and RoSPA groups, to help the Police deliver assessment rides for BikeSafe, as do many other groups up and down the country. We used to do the same for Cumbria Police, but they can't raise the funding/manpower anymore, so a local RoSPA Group has taken up the mantle to provide something similar and the local IAM and other RoSPA groups work with them to deliver the course, with the blessing of Cumbria Police and assistance from Cumbria Fire & Rescue. So again, we are not a million miles apart in what we do, all endeavouring to improve road safety.
I agree with you, we all are learning every time we go out on the bike, or in the car, none of us are ever too experienced or old to learn.
With one difference. The biggest one of them all.
You do it voluntarily, The outfit lord S works for presumably charges for it. This is where the volunteer sector can make a great difference,
Has King Rat recovered from having his piss boiled and feeling threatened?
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