Motorcycle Journey To the Alps & Back

[Easy]

Hi all, have planned the following trip for this July having read previous post, various bike mags and Motorcycle Journeys Through the Alps and Corsica by John Hermann (highly recommend).

The plan is as folllows and I would appreciate any comments / advice re the following route.

Day 1 hull to Rotterdam

Day 2 Rott to Baden Baden
381 miles, 6hrs 50 min
Rotterdam
Antwerpen
Malmedy (Spa)
Bitche (France)
Lemberg
Goetzenbruck
Wimmenau
Lixhausen
Seebach

Day 3 Baden to garmisch
298 miles 7hrs 30min
Highlight : B500

Ruhestein (Seebach)
Bad Rippoldsau - Schapbach
Schapbach
Walke
Oberwolfach
Singersbach
Gutach
Triberg
Furtwangen
Waldau
Titisee Neustadt
Lindau
Reutte
Depending on time:
Stanzach
Elmen
Tarrenz
Nassereith
Lermoos
Garmisch

Day 4 Garmisch to Riva DelGarda
242 miles, 7hrs
Highlight : numerous passes through the Dolomites

Garmisch
Mittenwald
Reith
Ortisei
Selva di Val Gardena
Corvara
Arabba
Canazei
Soraga
Cavalese
Lona - lases, trentino
Civezzano
Norge
Cavedine
Riva Del Garda

Day 5 day off.

Day 6 Riva del Garda to Lauterbrunnen
Highlight : 3 major passes
308 miles, 6hrs 40min

Riva del Garda
Gargnano
Capovalle
Idro
Vestone
Personico
Airolo
SAN GOTTARDO pass
Realp
FURKASTRASSE pass
Grimsel Passhohe
GRIMSEL pass
Guttannen

Day 7 Lauterbrunnen to Dun sur Meuse
319 miles, 6hrs 20min
Highlight : Vosges Mountains

Mulhouse
Uffholtz
Grand Ballon
D430 Route des Cretes
Gerbepal
Anould
Verdun

Day 8 Dun sur Meuse to Rotterdam

Day 9 home


I will try & post full ride report with pics upon completion.

 

[John Armstrong]

Practising for the Iron Butt award as there's some long days there? Especially if the weather is inclement / the roads are clogged up with caravans etc on the mountain passes. With that in mind day 6 looks the most at risk of being much longer than planned.

 

[Whele]

One should always strive for quality not quantity, but whatever your choice, it is supposed to be enjoyable.

Point the front wheel East ride in this general direction until you feel like stopping. Life is too short to be stressed out about reaching a destination every day at the expense of some much nicer roads off the beaten track (you miss the L277, one of the best roads in Europe on day 3)

I agree John, Lake Garda in July the average speed if its sunny will be below 20mph, even if your good at filtering in narrow, dark, twisting tunnels.

 

[enabb]

Agreed....daily mileage will ruin a good holibob...did south o France...aimed on 250+ a day, 450 been biggest day......never got to appriciate the views or take in the atmosphere, it was just about getting from A to B, then weather turned shite ...soaked for seconed week....became a chore...

Went to Black Forest in September....aimed on 150 miles a day once there, brilliant fun, despite riding back to ferry in a force 9 :

It's about the journey as well as destinations

 

[Ex-Call Centre Chimp]

Horses for courses, we're all different.

I've got a trip planned in the summer 2,500 mile round trip in 11 days with 1 day off on the way down & 3 days at a Moto GP.

I agree that the journey is part of the holiday but for me, being on the bike is what my holiday centres around.

I regularly used to do a round trip of 550 miles in a day to watch 90 minutes of football and the RT is far more comfortable than any car I've ever owned.

Sounds like you've planned a good trip to me. Enjoy it & be safe.

 

[The Grey One]

If you are riding in the Alps and can average much more than 30mph you are on the wrong roads! I don't know the roads mentioned well enough to give accurate times but I suspect that day 6 will be at least 10 hours even with minimal stops-12 if you actually take in the views.

Of course this might be just what you want and good luck to you if that's the case, it would be a very dull world if we all wanted the same. If, however, you only want to spend 6 or 7 hours riding then 200 miles is a more realistic target on Alpine roads.

It is easy to underestimate just how tiring mountain roads can be, We have seen many a biker falling asleep on our terrace after a days ride. Had to wake the buggers up to get them to have more beer!

Ride safe and enjoy

John

 

[Rasher]

The plan is as folllows and I would appreciate any comments / advice re the following route....

Day 2 Rott to Baden Baden
381 miles, 6hrs 50 min

Firstly even motorways will see an average of about 65mph whilst moving assuming a cruise speed of around 80-85 on the speedo, so unless you are on a 1 stop strategy for day two you may find it takes a bit longer than you think.

Day 3 Baden to garmisch
298 miles 7hrs 30min
Highlight : B500

The bit of the B500 from Baden to Seebach is the best, where it becomes the B28 for a bit around Schapbach loop the other way on the B28 through Bad Peterstall, the first bit is a warm up for Alpine switchbacks

After Triberg I would start heading directly to Garmische as this is not gonna be a fast run...

...if you do manage the full 300 miles on those roads in 7 hours give Honda a call and tell them you can replace that loser Pedrosa and show that upstart Lorenzo how to ride a bike

I reckon at a very decent pace it would be at least 6 hours in the saddle, this assumes no stopping to enjoy the scenery, blasting through towns and villages at double the speed limit and dragging your pegs on every turn.

On these country roads with some towns and villages to pass thhrough 45mph is probably a fair average moving pace, 250 miles will be easy enough in about 6 hours and you can stop and look at stuff, and not be under pressure to make it to your next stop, especially if conditions are not perfect.

Day 4 Garmisch to Riva DelGarda
242 miles, 7hrs
Highlight : numerous passes through the Dolomites

Again it looks like you are gonna be riding without a single stop, your GSA may manage the 242 miles non stop, but there is no way you won't want to take in some of that scenery or grab a Latte at the top of some passes.

Same goes for the rest of the trip to be honest, to re-iterate, my averages are:

Motorways 65-70 mph
Mix A / B Roads (Non Mountain) 45-50 mph
Mountain Roads 30-40 mph

I tend to spend about 15 minutes stopped for every hour moving, plus an extra 30 minutes for a decent lunch stop, maybe a bit less stoppage time on motorways, but on days of pass riding I can spend as much time stopped looking at scenery, enjoying pass top refuges (Cafe's) and taking pictures as I spend riding the bike.

I plan on the low end of my speeds so I know I should be OK if the weather turns to crap, and have plenty of time to enjoy the day if the weather is good.

You could do this trip as it is, but I think you need to add at least 2 hours to most of your days.

 

[Wapping]

I'd say you can do it all, providing you set off each day with the intention of doing it all.... Albeit some of your times may be a little optimistic in the hilly bits.

On your own is a lot quicker than with a pillion or with a bunch of bikes. Fuel stops can be properly coordinated with a shortish lunch break or tea stop. Splash in the motion lotion and ride off again. Flower pressing ( and gawping at views) can be kept to a minimum, too.

Mulhouse to Verdun is a doddle. I have taken nine bikes down much the same route, all comfortably in a day.

 

[Easy]

Thanks for all your replies, the times I originally gave were just the riding times.
Have slightly tweaked the route from what has been advised with the only really major change being to day 2 which will now be autobahn.
New route:


Day 1 hull to Rotterdam

Day 2 Rott to Baden Baden

Rotterdam
Lichtentaler
Seebach (Pension Williams)

383 miles. in 8hrs
Riding. 6hrs
Lunch/fuel. 2hrs


Day 3 Baden to garmisch
Highlight : B500

Ruhestein (Seebach)
Bad Rippoldsau - Schapbach
Schapbach
Lindau
Reutte
Garmisch

238 miles in 7hrs 30min
Riding. 5hrs 21min
Lunch 1hr
Fuel /other 1hr


Day 4 Garmisch to Riva DelGarda
Highlight : numerous passes through the Dolomites

Garmisch
Mittenwald
Reith
Ortisei
Selva di Val Gardena
Corvara
Arabba
Canazei
Soraga
Cavalese
Lona - lases, trentino
Riva Del Garda

228 miles in 8hrs
Riding. 6hrs
Lunch. 1hr
Fuel/other. 1hr


Day 5 day off.


Day 6 Riva del Garda to Lauterbrunnen
Highlight : 3 major passes

Riva del Garda
Gargnano
Capovalle
Idro
Airolo
SAN GOTTARDO pass
Realp
FURKASTRASSE pass
Grimsel Passhohe
GRIMSEL pass
Guttannen
Lauterbrunnen

307 miles in 8rs 30min
Riding 6hrs 30min
Lunch. 1hr
Fuel/other. 1hr


Day 7 Lauterbrunnen to Dun sur Meuse
Highlight : Vosges Mountains

Mulhouse
Uffholtz
Grand Ballon
D430 Route des Cretes
Gerbepal
Anould
Verdun

319 miles. in 8hrs 20min
Riding. 6hrs 20min
Lunch 1hr
Fuel/other. 1hr

Day 8 Dun sur Meuse to Rotterdam

Day 9 home

Staying at b&b's with intention of being on the road at 09:00.
Most of the group have completed advanced riding courses and are use to spending long days in the saddle so hopefully the distances shouldn't be to much of a problem.

 

[Dellis]

I'd say you can do it all, providing you set off each day with the intention of doing it all.... Albeit some of your times may be a little optimistic in the hilly bits.

On your own is a lot quicker than with a pillion or with a bunch of bikes. Fuel stops can be properly coordinated with a shortish lunch break or tea stop. Splash in the motion lotion and ride off again. Flower pressing ( and gawping at views) can be kept to a minimum, too.

Mulhouse to Verdun is a doddle. I have taken nine bikes down much the same route, all comfortably in a day.

I'll go with all of that except maybe the pillion bit, but it does depend on the pillion...

Dave

 

[Dellis]

One other thing; I'm about 45 minutes south of manchester and I tend to head via Dover/Calais and would expect to be in the Alps at the end of day two. I usually go by ferry rather than the tunnel as it gives you chance for a meal break and a stretch of your legs without having to make additional stops. The main advantage is that from Calais you can do a few hours thus starting closer to the mountains at the beginning of day two. You can either head straight through France which a bit dull or head through Belgium and Luxembourg which is about as dull but punctuated with a few more junctions making it seem less of a trudge, this way also had the advantage of being toll free and you can fill up with cheap juice in Luxembourg. The cost saving isn't a decision maker but you can save enough for a few beers.

Dave

 

[Dellis]

And another.... The San Gothard Pass, make sure you ride the old cobbled pass - really nice, especially the cobbles - a real work of art! You're also riding the Furka (my favourite) and the Grimsel is the best direction - both are fantastic!!! Not ridden either since 2011 but I'm heading there this summer and I can't wait.

Dave

 

[Rasher]

Times look better now, but do not underestimate the urge to press flowers

I would suggest you start early in the morning to allow time for lapses in speeds caused by sensational views and the draw of a good bikers stop.

Although if all you want to do is ride around corners quick for days on end a sucession of track days would probably work better.

My guess is you are trying to see as much is possible in the time you have avalailable and I really do get that, it is what I do, just be prepared to spend longer on the road (or more to the point at the side of it) than you anticipate.

You cannot gaurantee the weather either and you may have to adjust the route on some days and maybe not see much on others, I was really looking forward to the Furka / Grimsel in 2010, the Furka was wet and foggy on the way up, damp on the way down and the Grimsel was completely fogged out (not much more than 10 foot of visibility for much of it) I would guess we averaged less than 20mph all the way from Andermatt to the far side of the Grimsel - and lost another hour on an unplanned stop at the Furka Glacier, Oh and we set of later than planned as it was pissing down first thing in the morning so we waited an hour or so for it to stop.

 

[Ex-Call Centre Chimp]

You can either head straight through France which a bit dull or head through Belgium and Luxembourg which is about as dull but punctuated with a few more junctions making it seem less of a trudge, this way also had the advantage of being toll free and you can fill up with cheap juice in Luxembourg. The cost saving isn't a decision maker but you can save enough for a few beers.

Dave

Interested in that. We're heading from Bethune to Metz on our way to the Alps in May & I've specifically diverted our route to go via Luxembourg which I always imagined to be a pretty old city similar to Brugges/Brussels.
Sounds like you're suggesting that might not be the case and not worth changing the more direct route?

 

[seadog]

Interested in that. We're heading from Bethune to Metz on our way to the Alps in May & I've specifically diverted our route to go via Luxembourg which I always imagined to be a pretty old city similar to Brugges/Brussels.
Sounds like you're suggesting that might not be the case and not worth changing the more direct route?

I think Luxembourg is a nice city old and new bits!, have done there twice on our travels for lunch and the excellent brocant fairs.


Mike

 

[enabb]

Luxembourg looked real interesting when we rode though last year....seemed very busy...did,nt have time to hang about but intend making a point of stopping off next time..

 

[Ex-Call Centre Chimp]

Terrific, plan A and Luxembourg it is then, thanx Comrades.

Apologies for

 

[Dellis]

Interested in that. We're heading from Bethune to Metz on our way to the Alps in May & I've specifically diverted our route to go via Luxembourg which I always imagined to be a pretty old city similar to Brugges/Brussels.
Sounds like you're suggesting that might not be the case and not worth changing the more direct route?

I was referring to the route rather than the city. I'm not a city person so I'll leave it to others to comment on the virtues or otherwise Luxembourg city. I did once enjoy an excellent Roquefort salad in a Luxemborg restaurant

Dave

 

[GB.]

Hmm, I think My six day blitz might be a tall order

Norwich to Baden First day.

Baden to Stubai second day via The 500

A pop over to the Stelvio on the next day and back

Then the Kim falls plus the Glos pass and back

Head to Koblenz via the side of the river, B9 stay over night

Home next day.

 

[bmwrover]

@easy: On your third day, I suggest you stop at Meersburg/Lake Constance instead of Lindau Insel. For your ambitious time plan, you loose too much time getting onto the Insel (island) Lindau, as the bridge is very very busy most of the time. If you stop in Meersburg, you are right there, either park uptown or at the ferry to Konstanz parking place and do a walking loop through the old town. Its prettier in the way of being "more condensed" than Lindau, where you need more time to explore the beauty.

And to drive along the lake is very busy over the weekends (not knowing on which day you are travelling)