Motorcycle rider safety in European countries.

[Morety]

Personally, I can't see the need as any half competent/experienced rider should know where they ought to be for safe positioning. It's yet another nannying distraction costing tax payers more to fund instead of taking care of priorities like filling pot holes which remain a significant danger on many local roads to me.

 

[er-minio]

Agree.
My main "beef" is that there could be a miriad of reasons for me to have to take a different line (safely), and there could be a miriad of reasons for me to have to alter/correct my line mid corner even at reasonable high speed (again, if you cannot do this on road riding, consider something else).

I would generally avoid touching lines/painted areas both on wet and dry (a bit less anal about it on dry asphalt) and this really could limit your available lane area.
I know someone said this is grippy adhesive paint/etc, but 1. I want to experiment "how" grippy before riding on them and, 2. it is still a change of grip (positive or negative) I'd rather avoid to be fair.

Again, I appreciate the sentiment, but you are effectively limiting existing lane space.

 

[Wapping]

Personally, I can't see the need as any half competent/experienced rider should know where they ought to be for safe positioning.

Given the number of police crash investigation spray paint lines on the roads in the Benelux, I would say that the need might well be real.

As to cost? Paint is cheap. Putting in more solid speed restrictions is expensive, as is hospital.

 

[Morety]

Given the number of police crash investigation spray paint lines on the roads in the Benelux, I would say that the need might well be real.

As to cost? Paint is cheap. Putting in more solid speed restrictions is expensive, as is hospital.

Perhaps, perhaps not. There's a good chance that many of those accidents had speed related factors. Statistically, most motorcycle accidents on corners here in the UK are due to excess speed being the major factor.

 

[leadfarmer]

I would generally avoid touching lines/painted areas both on wet and dry (a bit less anal about it on dry asphalt) and this really could limit your available lane area.

I did wonder about that too, in the wet primarily

 

[er-minio]

Statistically, most motorcycle accidents on corners here in the UK are due to excess speed being the major factor.

As a slightly related note. There is (it seems, I have to add, I don’t have an actual data source, but read about this in a couple of papers) a fair bias over speeding being listed as a cause of accidents.

This should be because most people would drive around/above the limit —> speed is indicated as one of the causes of the accidents —> speed limit is lowered —> more people drive slightly above it —> repeat.

Over the number of accidents, I do trust Wapping if he says so. The article reports a percentage reduction (80% of an initial figure we are not disclosed, could be 2), but I don’t know those areas at all.


There is a fair amount of people crashing head on on southern shores as well, and that is due to people not being able to negotiate an hairpin without invading the other lane. It’s an infinite source of fights/discussion on some bike forums down south

Most of those are traveling way below the limit instead (15/20kmh at most) and still put others (and themselves) at risk.

 

[Wapping]

I would generally avoid touching lines/painted areas both on wet and dry (a bit less anal about it on dry asphalt) and this really could limit your available lane area.

I guess that in itself should help to slow bods down. Given that speed is apparently a factor, I guess it helps.

I had never seen the markings before yesterday, but there’s a load on the popular (ie fast, awesome twisties and bikermate’ish) roads out of Clervaux and Wiltz, which suggests to me that it’s a ‘Luxembourg thing’. The natural inclination when confronted with something you have never seen before is to look at it. On a motorcycle that inevitably means looking down…. When you should of course be looking as far ahead as is reasonably possible and at the vanishing point. I had to tear my head up or the bike would have started to run very straight…. Which would definitely defeat the object.

Once I was used to the markings, I could see what the planners are trying to achieve. There is some science to the way the paint is laid and the lines shaped / spaced. It’s not just slapped down. The markings are certainly less ‘confusing’ than the sometimes huge and very bright corner marker boards, some of which are just badly designed, almost forcing you to look at them…. Which, as you go where you look, is never a good thing.

 

[EVskiy]

I guess that in itself should help to slow bods down. Given that speed is apparently a factor, I guess it helps.

I had never seen the markings before yesterday, but there’s a load on the popular (ie fast, awesome twisties and bikermate’ish) roads out of Clervaux and Wiltz, which suggests to me that it’s a ‘Luxembourg thing’. The natural inclination when confronted with something you have never seen before is to look at it. On a motorcycle that inevitably means looking down…. When you should of course be looking as far ahead as is reasonably possible and at the vanishing point. I had to tear my head up or the bike would have started to run very straight…. Which would definitely defeat the object.

Once I was used to the markings, I could see what the planners are trying to achieve. There is some science to the way the paint is laid and the lines shaped / spaced. It’s not just slapped down. The markings are certainly less ‘confusing’ than the sometimes huge and very bright corner marker boards, some of which are just badly designed, almost forcing you to look at them…. Which, as you go where you look, is never a good thing.

I personally think the lines area brilliant idea. Certainly a helping "hand" to those new and lacking in practice and/or less experienced riders.

 

[er-minio]

Don't get me wrong.
They definitely put some proper thought behind it. Not like the UK placing random speed bumps in the middle of the road or painting cycle lanes slippery blue.

I'd just wouldn't have them. Or wouldn't have them limiting free "paint free" lane space. From the pictures they don't seem to be particularly weird corners, but I also admit it might not be easy to guess from the pic on a second thought.
But also, yes, extra marking make people slow down generally.

It's the reason for those horizontal marking approaching towns in France/Italy, as they give you more sense of speed.

 

[Morety]

As a slightly related note. There is (it seems, I have to add, I don’t have an actual data source, but read about this in a couple of papers) a fair bias over speeding being listed as a cause of accidents.

This should be because most people would drive around/above the limit —> speed is indicated as one of the causes of the accidents —> speed limit is lowered —> more people drive slightly above it —> repeat.

Over the number of accidents, I do trust Wapping if he says so. The article reports a percentage reduction (80% of an initial figure we are not disclosed, could be 2), but I don’t know those areas at all.


There is a fair amount of people crashing head on on southern shores as well, and that is due to people not being able to negotiate an hairpin without invading the other lane. It’s an infinite source of fights/discussion on some bike forums down south

Most of those are traveling way below the limit instead (15/20kmh at most) and still put others (and themselves) at risk.

Yes, I tend to agree with you there. Speed is only one contributing factor and some roads can be trickier than others. It's interesting looking into some of these cases where excess speed wasn't the cause, but for some, becoming fixated on the tarmac immediately to the front and the corner suddenly tightens up, so the rider, now off line and running wide over-corrects and loses the front end or panic brakes, or worse still, can run into something coming the other way. I guess if riding on unfamiliar roads, at least keeping speeds down on approaches which may be uncertain, following the limit points and trying beforehand to look for clues as to where the road goes can help, but is not always possible. Most experienced riders know enough to think it out on the approach but for a few, a combination of uncertain bike handling skills, poorly set up bikes, inclement weather conditions and a host of other factors no doubt contribute to accidents happening. Many can be found to be avoidable. Some just won't be due to other mitigating factors outside of the control of the rider.

 

[King Rat]

I’ve seen the in the Highlands, apparently it’s a trial that been going on since 2021. They’re called PRIME markings on entries to corners to encourage road position and speed reduction to reduce mc accidents on corners. Apparently they have been very successful in the reduction of accidents. Basically it’s putting you in a road position for best view around the corner (ROSPA, IAM, police training).

That second picture puts your tyres right in the crud line.... as opposed to the edge of the crud line.

Maybe the lines are not there purely to guide less experienced riders for cornering but also to push them away from the rapid (speeding) logging trucks and delivery drivers using both lanes to get round the corner. Bulk tippers and skip wagon drivers are even worse, because they get paid load bonus, if they can squeeze in one extra trip in the day....