My test of a GS12

Mark Rodgers said:
Erm, I am a lot of things, but sensitive, me owd son - aint one em. Your quoted post is utter shite because I never suggested that someone with 14 posts could not have an opinion.

Telling someone to feck off aint an opinion - its abuse which we don't need.

Mark, while I stand by the rest of my post I must apologise for publishing my opinion regarding your personality. We can all have opinions but when it gets personal or abusive it achieves nothing and should be kept private.;)
 
Hark at you lot, BMW owners for 5 minutes and your shouting the odds.

Ive read Howards comparisons and find he's being fair to both bikes. He gives as many plus points to the GS as the Tiger, at no point does he say the GS is crap.

IMO (and its never humble) the 1200GS looks to much like a 650 it doesnt have the presence of the older bikes.

The early Tigers (steamers) IMO are much better looking, the newer ones are rather odd, but having ridden the 955 motor it is a stormer. Now you want shite try a Caponord :D

And where does the MYTH come from that Hinkley Triumphs are unreliable :confused:
 
Why is anyone so offended by his post? It's his opinion, nothing more. While I don't agree with him on some issues I appeciate the comparison between the two models that I was considering in the past. I preferred the old Tiger to the new in terms of styling, and while that's subjective, that was enough for me to pass on it, but certainly not enough for me to tell someone else to rule it out.
Now if we don't want this site to denigrate into what other sites have perhaps the best thing to do is to perhaps correct some of the miscues that you might have gotten in your 50 km ride.
The engine vibration question is a fair point but I've done some 24,000 km on it including a 8,000 km trip and a one day total of over 1,300 km and I can honestly say it is a non-issue. Having owned multi-cylinder I4's and V2 Japanese bikes I can denfinitely say that the vibration in comparison is minimal.
As far as suspension I guess that's a personal think. Chances are the demo wasn't broken in. I found it took 9,000 km before it really broke in.

All told to each their own. I'm not offended. He's enjoying his Tiger. I'm enjoying my 12GS. At least he isn't as bad as that BigBike guy that bought the 950.:beer:
 
A nicely weighted cast with a tasty morsal for bait placed into the hungry shoal. Couldn't fail really, nice one Howard:)

Tim
 
Wraithwrider said:
Seriously Howard ever heard of humour?

Yes mate. All my comments are humourous. Just that nobody on this thread realises it! Shame really coz it's good fun poking a sharp stick into a wasps nest and seeing the defensive reaction.

Anyone on this forum who knows me will know that I don't often defend the bike I'm riding. I was always slating my GS when it was the only bike I had because it deserved it.
 
Howard Millichap said:
Yes mate. All my comments are humourous. Just that nobody on this thread realises it! Shame really coz it's good fun poking a sharp stick into a wasps nest and seeing the defensive reaction.

Anyone on this forum who knows me will know that I don't often defend the bike I'm riding. I was always slating my GS when it was the only bike I had because it deserved it.

Thats a good attempt at a save there Howard. A well earned 7 out of 10. You wily old fox.;)

Good timing with the change of signature too.;)
 
Road test of 1200GS

I don't see much point in writing a road test (even if you were a qualified tester -whatever that means) after an hour or two. I had an 1150GS which was excellent. Then I read a number of very enthusistic tests of the 1200GS in Moto-Journal (I live in France.) These test covered thousands of miles and were in conjuction with similar 'bikes. They were enough to convince me to change up to the 1200GS and after 2500km I am delighted. Oh, I really do wish the Tiger was as good - because I would prefer to ride an English 'bike but I am afraid that so far there is no real comparison. ( Oh dear - I have never ridden a Tiger so I, also, am talking nonsence.) Now the sun is shining and the temperature is rising - 2°C now - so I'll be off on the bike; Safe riding, Brian
 
Just that nobody on this thread realises it

That of course is one of the disadvantages of not being face to face!

There are loads of advantages though;)
 
Howard Millichap said:
Shame really coz it's good fun poking a sharp stick into a wasps nest and seeing the defensive reaction.

Ummm, no its not. Its good fun making constructive posts that inform others, being genuinely humourous and generally trying to be allround helpful and entertaining (others, not yourself).

So as it was big joke / stir, Ill go away assuming that you didnt mean what you said, and therefore the GS is once again superior. Cheers, it turned out useful after all :thumb
 
Dr Rich said:
Ummm, no its not. Its good fun making constructive posts that inform others, being genuinely humourous and generally trying to be allround helpful and entertaining (others, not yourself).

So as it was big joke / stir, Ill go away assuming that you didnt mean what you said, and therefore the GS is once again superior. Cheers, it turned out useful after all :thumb

Blimey - you're a bundle of laughs, aren't you...

Mike:P
 
Another Great thread

I too read Howard's write-up..........

Can I book him for a Full Structural Survey and mortgage valuation?
 
My final post on this subject.

This is my final post on this subject. It’s a bit of a story but stick with it and you’ll understand where I’m coming from on this.
In a previous career, which ended in redundancy, I was a mechanical engineering designer, working on tobacco machinery like cigarette making and packaging machines. The job of a designer is to assess the requirements and design a part or mechanism to satisfy those requirements. Also, to look at existing designs to assess whether they can be improved. The latter is most relevant to this thread. When the new design is finished, it is judged against the old one to assess if it is better or not.
Now, in 30 years of riding bikes, I’ve realized that the perfect bike does not exist. When I tested the GS12 I had to judge it against what I knew best, that being my Tiger. If I had owned a Honda VFR I would have judged it against that. My assessment of the GS was that it fell short in a few areas. That is my honest opinion to which I’m fully entitled. You are, of course, entitled to disagree.
I’ve encountered the sort of reaction I got before when talking to BMW owners. Back in 1996, I had a Yamaha TDR250. A great little buzz saw of a bike, but no good for touring. So I was look for something to start exploring the back lanes and dirt tracks around Europe. A good friend of mine is a long term owner of a R80GS. He said “Yes, the GS can be made to work quite well”. I’ll repeat that for those wearing blinkers ; He said : “Yes, the GS can be made to work quite well”.
With that in my head I went off and bought the R100GS that I owned until last year. The first thing I found “wrong” with it was that the forks were horribly under damped. The wheel felt as if it was bouncing off the road when it hit a bump. The GSclubUK didn’t exist then, so I asked member/owners in the pipe & slippers club for advice. I received several replies along the lines of ; “If that’s the way BMW designed it, then that’s good enough for me”. I now believe that a lot of you GS12 owners fall into that category. I went on to experiment with fork oil weights and came up with a concoction that several other GSclub members, elsewhere on this forum, have used and approved.
Other things I went on to modify were :- Front brake hose changed to “Goodrich”. Engine twin plugged & gas flowed by Jim Cray. Air box modified to HPN spec. Carburation sorted, by me, to suit. Rear shock changed to Hagon, then Ohlins. Seat reupholstered with more padding. Screen cut down to reduce buffeting. Renthal bars installed. And, do you know what? When the rest of the crap designed BMW bits (like the gearbox, drive shaft, starter motor & generator rotor) hold together, the GS can be made to work quite well!
So, can I suggest to you lot that you start assessing the bike that BMW sold to you, and make a note of those little things that annoy you and set about modifying them. You will then move your bike a bit closer towards that illusive “perfect bike”. Of course to start that process, you’ve, first, got to pull you head out of BMWs arse!
 
Re: My final post on this subject.

Howard Millichap said:
This is my final post on this subject. It’s a bit of a story but stick with it and you’ll understand where I’m coming from on this.
In a previous career, which ended in redundancy, I was a mechanical engineering designer, working on tobacco machinery like cigarette making and packaging machines. The job of a designer is to assess the requirements and design a part or mechanism to satisfy those requirements. Also, to look at existing designs to assess whether they can be improved. The latter is most relevant to this thread. When the new design is finished, it is judged against the old one to assess if it is better or not.
Now, in 30 years of riding bikes, I’ve realized that the perfect bike does not exist. When I tested the GS12 I had to judge it against what I knew best, that being my Tiger. If I had owned a Honda VFR I would have judged it against that. My assessment of the GS was that it fell short in a few areas. That is my honest opinion to which I’m fully entitled. You are, of course, entitled to disagree.
I’ve encountered the sort of reaction I got before when talking to BMW owners. Back in 1996, I had a Yamaha TDR250. A great little buzz saw of a bike, but no good for touring. So I was look for something to start exploring the back lanes and dirt tracks around Europe. A good friend of mine is a long term owner of a R80GS. He said “Yes, the GS can be made to work quite well”. I’ll repeat that for those wearing blinkers ; He said : “Yes, the GS can be made to work quite well”.
With that in my head I went off and bought the R100GS that I owned until last year. The first thing I found “wrong” with it was that the forks were horribly under damped. The wheel felt as if it was bouncing off the road when it hit a bump. The GSclubUK didn’t exist then, so I asked member/owners in the pipe & slippers club for advice. I received several replies along the lines of ; “If that’s the way BMW designed it, then that’s good enough for me”. I now believe that a lot of you GS12 owners fall into that category. I went on to experiment with fork oil weights and came up with a concoction that several other GSclub members, elsewhere on this forum, have used and approved.
Other things I went on to modify were :- Front brake hose changed to “Goodrich”. Engine twin plugged & gas flowed by Jim Cray. Air box modified to HPN spec. Carburation sorted, by me, to suit. Rear shock changed to Hagon, then Ohlins. Seat reupholstered with more padding. Screen cut down to reduce buffeting. Renthal bars installed. And, do you know what? When the rest of the crap designed BMW bits (like the gearbox, drive shaft, starter motor & generator rotor) hold together, the GS can be made to work quite well!
So, can I suggest to you lot that you start assessing the bike that BMW sold to you, and make a note of those little things that annoy you and set about modifying them. You will then move your bike a bit closer towards that illusive “perfect bike”. Of course to start that process, you’ve, first, got to pull you head out of BMWs arse!

Looks like somebody got poked with a stick

:hapybnce:
 
Until now I was, and still am, of the opinion that Howard was/is very much entitled to his opinion. We all are, naturally. The fact (in my opinion) that he first aired his opinion in what seemed to be a manner designed to prompt the response it did receive was, I would hope, just intended to generate a bit of friendly 'banter' as opposed to attempting to purposefully tick people off.

However, I have to say that (again, in my opinion) I think that Howard's latest reply has probably gone a little too far (in terms of simply being too personal (I have the ending particularly in mind)).

Howard - if people want to be passionate about, and devoted to, their bikes, then let them be, regardless of whether said bikes have particular weaknesses/points which could be improved. I certainly am and I haven't even got mine yet (traded my CBR6 in last year ready for delivery of GS on 1 March)!. And, as such, it is only natural that passionate, devoted bike owners will seek to 'defend' their steed of choice. I think that it's wrong to critise such passion/devotion, as you have now gone on to do.

Now, let's put all the toys back in the prams and cease such destructive threads.
 


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