My test of a GS12

So, can I suggest to you lot that you start assessing the bike that BMW sold to you, and make a note of those little things that annoy you and set about modifying them. You will then move your bike a bit closer towards that illusive “perfect bike”. Of course to start that process, you’ve, first, got to pull you head out of BMWs arse!

Aha, so your true colours came out in the end Howard.

My 1200 IS one hell of a cracking bike, period!

I have both the engineering and motorcycling credentials to suggest that the above paragraph is clearly 'your stuff' and perhaps belongs in therapy.
 
I would never own a crap Tiger, but I'll be having one of those new Speed Triples, in black, as soon as they get here. Should be a good companion for the R12, and I've always wanted to be a Rocker.:beerjug:
 
Howard,

Rather than debate with you or others the pros and cons of the 12GS I prefer to endorse your engineering approach to getting what we want from our toys.

BMW, in common with all manufacturers, build a compromise product and stop the development before launch at the design freezing meeting.

We then get to complete the development and they make changes just as limited in scope and as slowly as they can get away with.

Those of us who have the ability and desire modify the thing to suit our perception of what it should have been from the launch or for our particular type of use etc.

Many people prefer not to even think about modification believing that lot down in Bayern are engineering gods(NOT), and very few do more than add after market goodies. Personally I like to make the subtle mods that sort out some of the badly executed design brief if I can work around it. But then I, like you I suspect, am some sort of gear head!

And while fully supporting your engineering approach I would like to know what shit engineering you have found to sort on the Trumpet?
Terry
 
Here's the comparison in Bike between the Trumpet and the BM. This is after a years riding and a comparison by the same rider (the Trumpet was nicked):

The Triumph, with its smoother, slightly more pikey three-pot motor, is quicker in a straight line and amazingly agile for a machine of such hefet, but the BMW pips it in terms of quality feel, handling and character. Both are incredibly comfortable and easy to ride, with acres of torque, huge tank ranges and suspension that copes with any type of road surface - though the BMW copes a degree better thanks to the anti-dive qualities of Telelever and better damping throughout.

I'd heartidly recommend either machine.

The Tiger at £7000 with panniers and heated grips, represents outstanding value, especially if long rides are your bag. It has to be among the vest value tourers on the market. You'll be stumping up £3000 more for a similarly equipped GS, but in the long run I'd still have to plump for the German bike because I rekon there'd be less depreciation over a number of years and I just love the character, styling and grot-free shaft-drive. The luggage is far higher quality too. The expandable panniers are nothing short of a masterstroke and every detail is beautifully designed.


Take from that what you will, but an independant (?) viewpoint none the less.

As for the engineering approach - well I'd rather not think about what went on behind closed doors at BMW or Triumph. Any engineer knows that comprimise is ever present, however larger budget means you generally comprimise less. You pays your money, you takes your choice. Neither bikes will be perfect, however some will be more perfect than others:D
 
Re: My final post on this subject.

Howard Millichap said:
This is my final post on this subject. It’s a bit of a story but stick with it and you’ll understand where I’m coming from on this.
In a previous career, which ended in redundancy, I was a mechanical engineering designer, working on tobacco machinery like cigarette making and packaging machines. The job of a designer is to assess the requirements and design a part or mechanism to satisfy those requirements. Also, to look at existing designs to assess whether they can be improved. The latter is most relevant to this thread. When the new design is finished, it is judged against the old one to assess if it is better or not.
Now, in 30 years of riding bikes, I’ve realized that the perfect bike does not exist. When I tested the GS12 I had to judge it against what I knew best, that being my Tiger. If I had owned a Honda VFR I would have judged it against that. My assessment of the GS was that it fell short in a few areas. That is my honest opinion to which I’m fully entitled. You are, of course, entitled to disagree.
I’ve encountered the sort of reaction I got before when talking to BMW owners. Back in 1996, I had a Yamaha TDR250. A great little buzz saw of a bike, but no good for touring. So I was look for something to start exploring the back lanes and dirt tracks around Europe. A good friend of mine is a long term owner of a R80GS. He said “Yes, the GS can be made to work quite well”. I’ll repeat that for those wearing blinkers ; He said : “Yes, the GS can be made to work quite well”.
With that in my head I went off and bought the R100GS that I owned until last year. The first thing I found “wrong” with it was that the forks were horribly under damped. The wheel felt as if it was bouncing off the road when it hit a bump. The GSclubUK didn’t exist then, so I asked member/owners in the pipe & slippers club for advice. I received several replies along the lines of ; “If that’s the way BMW designed it, then that’s good enough for me”. I now believe that a lot of you GS12 owners fall into that category. I went on to experiment with fork oil weights and came up with a concoction that several other GSclub members, elsewhere on this forum, have used and approved.
Other things I went on to modify were :- Front brake hose changed to “Goodrich”. Engine twin plugged & gas flowed by Jim Cray. Air box modified to HPN spec. Carburation sorted, by me, to suit. Rear shock changed to Hagon, then Ohlins. Seat reupholstered with more padding. Screen cut down to reduce buffeting. Renthal bars installed. And, do you know what? When the rest of the crap designed BMW bits (like the gearbox, drive shaft, starter motor & generator rotor) hold together, the GS can be made to work quite well!
So, can I suggest to you lot that you start assessing the bike that BMW sold to you, and make a note of those little things that annoy you and set about modifying them. You will then move your bike a bit closer towards that illusive “perfect bike”. Of course to start that process, you’ve, first, got to pull you head out of BMWs arse!


I suggest the writer tries a course of cognitive behavioural therapy, he clearly has deep rooted problems and a sphincter fixation.

:(
 
Howard Millichap said:
Yes mate. All my comments are humourous.

Not all of them.. just the ones which rate the Tiger


Just that nobody on this thread realises it!

Another false statement :rolleyes:
 
So, can I suggest to you lot that you start assessing the bike that BMW sold to you, and make a note of those little things that annoy you and set about modifying them. You will then move your bike a bit closer towards that illusive “perfect bike”. Of course to start that process, you’ve, first, got to pull you head out of BMWs arse!

Interesting closing paragraph! Just so you know where I am coming from. I was once going to stick some Skoda Badges on my 1150, just to wind up the BMW purists. But me being a tight arse, decided not to fork out the dosh, so I never bothered.
As far as I am concerned, I could'nt give a monkeys whats on the badge, its how the bike works for me.
Now, the 1150 is a wonderful machine. But, because I am a compulsive fiddler, I couldnt keep my hands off it. I messed about with everything (probably making them worse, certainly some of them) and enjoyed myself doing it.
The point I want to make here is, I now have the 1200, and despite many trips to the garage to ponder what to add next, the only two things I can come up with is: add a fender extender and a hugger. Its bugging the hell out of me, but thats all I want to add. Why? Because the bike is spot on for me! So far, its the best bike I have ever owned or ridden (and thats a lot!!)
So, not everyone on this board has their head up their arse. In fact, I would say you can count those that do..... on the fingers of a badly damaged hand.
Worth pondering that thought next time you look in the mirror
:D
 
Think ill need to go test ride one of these new fangled 1200GS's and see how many cages I can rattle with my post test comments :D
 
Is there a Triumph Tiger Owners Club?
 
bigbike2004 said:

Confused?

HTH
mugs.jpg
 
Confused?

You're very right. You have to be to spend £10.5 k on a bike with dangerous brakes people are choosing to ignore as being an issue and a rear shaft people are losing reliability confidence in.
 
Still waiting for you to post the piccies of your KTM. In the "Show us yours" section will do just fine.

Bob

PS As you are in Suffolk, which BMW dealer did you go for the "test rides" on the 1150 and the 1200? And which KTM 950 dealer did you use in the end?
 
I love the Triumph motor.....but I took a test ride on the 12, was so impressed I rode back to the dealer, said "I'll have one", went home and thought "How am I gonna pay for that?"..........worked 7 days a week for 8 months and still had to borrow £5,000, so I was and still am impressed despite servo pump failure.
This bike is the 2nd most expensive thing I ever bought, next to my house........just worked yet another Saturday.
Yes this bike has faults which will be sorted......and for hooning around Europe this Summer I can see no finer device.....

So shoot me down in flames, should you wish, but I am a happy 12 owner.....mostly.
 


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