Its the same with recently used or stored destinations. Different map version from the time it was last used will require a new route to the same destination otherwise it tends to say no roads around the destination.
Nav V Routes recalculating :(
- Thread starter DJ GSA
- Start date
Its the same with recently used or stored destinations. Different map version from the time it was last used will require a new route to the same destination otherwise it tends to say no roads around the destination.
The Grey One
Registered user
I have downloaded routes made on OSM maps, they simply re calculate on the device if I am using a Garmin map. I can also swap from Garmin to OSM mid route or the other way around and the route still works. I currently have seven generations of Garmin maps and three OSM versions ( not to mention Garmin North America and OSM Australia) on my PC. I can produce a route on any one of them and transfer to the device and use it. What am I doing wrong?
John
danjacks
Registered user
\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/
Well, I'm lost in all this but I was keen on taking up the
To avoid any possible 'pollution' (or suggestion of cheating) I took a Nav V and took it right back to its factory settings, starting from square one as it were.
I opened up the OP's route on my Mac, running map version 2017.1 NTU in BaseCamp. The Nav V also has the same map, properly installed.
I turned off all routing preferences on my Mac and on the Nav V, just to make sure nothing would interfere.
Looking at the route's info there are a few oddities, including a departure time at point 009292 that is before the fellow arrives but other than that it looks OK, so let's load it onto the unsuspecting virginal Nav V........ hey-ho, let's go....
1. I requested BaseCamp to send across the route AND the waypoints
2. The OP's route was created in a different map version, so (naturally enough) BaseCamp asked me if I wanted to recalculate it before it was sent. I said, NO
3. I ejected my Nav V, as required by a Mac
4. I turned on the Nav V and was prompted that it had found a new route and would I like to import it into Trip Planner? YES
5. The Nav V then imported the route. It has to make a calculation of it, unavoidable.
6. The route appeared in the Trip Planner App..... Big roll on drums......
7. It is 167 miles which matches the OP's distance
8. The Nav V says it will take 4 hrs 35 minutes.
9. The route displays correctly and looks OK in the Nav V's review function
10. I have to switch the Nav V to indoor use, which turns the GPS off. That doesn't matter, I can still simulate driving the route.... The Nav V does it perfectly. I am confident it would have done it had I started in Wolverhampton, rather than simuated the ride from the comfort of my home in London, E1
11. I then shared the route with a second (non-virginal) Nav V via Bluetooth. Again, it worked perfectly.
12. I then re-imported the route from the Nav V, back into BaseCamp on my Mac...
13. I then changed the re-imported route's colour, just so it would stand out against the original route. There were no obvious differences.
So, what have we learned.....
(a) That there is nothing at all wrong with BaseCamp, it dealt with everything I asked it to do and more besides.
(b) That there is nothing wrong with the OP's route as such. Yes, it's maybe a bit untidy in its creation but so many routes are.
(c) That there is nothing wrong with the way my two separate Nav V's (one virginal, the other most definitely not) handled the OP's route and a simulation of driving it.
(d) That there is no need to start creating all sorts of additional waypoints which are (in the hands of the unwary) an invention of the devil. Similarly, there is no need to create a track or muck about with all the alternative software to Basecamp; all it does is cause even more confusion. I did the lot without mucking the OP's route about at all, all from with good old bog standard BaseCamp.
(e) That there is - in this instance at least - no need for OSM maps. Garmin's (or Navetec's) worked fine, in that all the roads the OP wanted to use seemed to be there.
14. Just for fun, I then recreated the OP's route afresh (and maybe more simply) in BaseCamp, mirroring the route by simply tracing over it by dragging. Here it is, hosted in Dropbox. It was exported as a .gpx file, called 'Wapping - IAM route thing'. If anyone downloads it, just make sure it ends with the .gpx extension, as a Mac (or Dropbox) will sometimes convert it into a text file. The route is coloured red, just to differentiate it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4jgr5gxbhk1yuix/Wapping - IAM route thing.GPX?dl=0
I suggest the OP tries it out; I'd be happy to ride it.
Lessons to be learned, OP......
You lost your bet of:
Get to know and love BaseCamp, it really does work well
Get to know and love your Nav V, it really can (and will) work well
Richard
PS I did run the OP's route via OSM maps, too. It worked fine both in BaseCamp and on my Nav V.
challenge to run the route in post 28 from BaseCamp onto a Nav V to see if it would work with no effort.....
To avoid any possible 'pollution' (or suggestion of cheating) I took a Nav V and took it right back to its factory settings, starting from square one as it were.
I opened up the OP's route on my Mac, running map version 2017.1 NTU in BaseCamp. The Nav V also has the same map, properly installed.
I turned off all routing preferences on my Mac and on the Nav V, just to make sure nothing would interfere.
Looking at the route's info there are a few oddities, including a departure time at point 009292 that is before the fellow arrives but other than that it looks OK, so let's load it onto the unsuspecting virginal Nav V........ hey-ho, let's go....
1. I requested BaseCamp to send across the route AND the waypoints
2. The OP's route was created in a different map version, so (naturally enough) BaseCamp asked me if I wanted to recalculate it before it was sent. I said, NO
3. I ejected my Nav V, as required by a Mac
4. I turned on the Nav V and was prompted that it had found a new route and would I like to import it into Trip Planner? YES
5. The Nav V then imported the route. It has to make a calculation of it, unavoidable.
6. The route appeared in the Trip Planner App..... Big roll on drums......
7. It is 167 miles which matches the OP's distance
8. The Nav V says it will take 4 hrs 35 minutes.
9. The route displays correctly and looks OK in the Nav V's review function
10. I have to switch the Nav V to indoor use, which turns the GPS off. That doesn't matter, I can still simulate driving the route.... The Nav V does it perfectly. I am confident it would have done it had I started in Wolverhampton, rather than simuated the ride from the comfort of my home in London, E1
11. I then shared the route with a second (non-virginal) Nav V via Bluetooth. Again, it worked perfectly.
12. I then re-imported the route from the Nav V, back into BaseCamp on my Mac...
13. I then changed the re-imported route's colour, just so it would stand out against the original route. There were no obvious differences.
So, what have we learned.....
(a) That there is nothing at all wrong with BaseCamp, it dealt with everything I asked it to do and more besides.
(b) That there is nothing wrong with the OP's route as such. Yes, it's maybe a bit untidy in its creation but so many routes are.
(c) That there is nothing wrong with the way my two separate Nav V's (one virginal, the other most definitely not) handled the OP's route and a simulation of driving it.
(d) That there is no need to start creating all sorts of additional waypoints which are (in the hands of the unwary) an invention of the devil. Similarly, there is no need to create a track or muck about with all the alternative software to Basecamp; all it does is cause even more confusion. I did the lot without mucking the OP's route about at all, all from with good old bog standard BaseCamp.
(e) That there is - in this instance at least - no need for OSM maps. Garmin's (or Navetec's) worked fine, in that all the roads the OP wanted to use seemed to be there.
14. Just for fun, I then recreated the OP's route afresh (and maybe more simply) in BaseCamp, mirroring the route by simply tracing over it by dragging. Here it is, hosted in Dropbox. It was exported as a .gpx file, called 'Wapping - IAM route thing'. If anyone downloads it, just make sure it ends with the .gpx extension, as a Mac (or Dropbox) will sometimes convert it into a text file. The route is coloured red, just to differentiate it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4jgr5gxbhk1yuix/Wapping - IAM route thing.GPX?dl=0
I suggest the OP tries it out; I'd be happy to ride it.
Lessons to be learned, OP......
You lost your bet of:
Get to know and love BaseCamp, it really does work well
Get to know and love your Nav V, it really can (and will) work well
Richard
PS I did run the OP's route via OSM maps, too. It worked fine both in BaseCamp and on my Nav V.
DJ GSA
Registered user
Thanks @Wapping
I must have some setting wrong somewhere between Basecamp and NavV
There are different route options on both, some the same and some on BC that aren't on the Nav
Anyway, I tried this and get the same issue. Pick the route from the route planner, route looks fine. "Select Next Destination", ...calculating... route is different
I will carry on with Jersey_GS's solution until I work out what I am doing (or setting) wrong
I really like Basecamp and NavV when they behave, but when seemingly simple things do go that way its really frustrating.
You'd think a device with a BMW badge on and "Garmin" inside would be the d's b's, that said it does knock a few spots of other nav devices
I must have some setting wrong somewhere between Basecamp and NavV
There are different route options on both, some the same and some on BC that aren't on the Nav
Anyway, I tried this and get the same issue. Pick the route from the route planner, route looks fine. "Select Next Destination", ...calculating... route is different
I will carry on with Jersey_GS's solution until I work out what I am doing (or setting) wrong
I really like Basecamp and NavV when they behave, but when seemingly simple things do go that way its really frustrating.
You'd think a device with a BMW badge on and "Garmin" inside would be the d's b's, that said it does knock a few spots of other nav devices
Answer me one question, please.
When you run the route, are you at the start of it? Yes or no.
If no, how far away from the start are you?
When you run the route, are you at the start of it? Yes or no.
If no, how far away from the start are you?
The issue with the new brand of Zumo's 390 590 Nav V is that the device gives priority to waypoints in fact it only uses shaping points to reference the route when calculating/replicating it.
When you come to activate the route as you prepare to ride it, you are requested to "select the next destination" when you are at this stage you will notice only waypoints are listed.
if your route was made up of say a start waypoint 10 shaping points and a destination waypoint. at the stage of activation you will only see the two waypoints as options in the "select the next destination"
If you select the start the GPS will guide you to it and along your carefully built route.
If you select the last/destination the GPS will take you to that destination but will ignore your fist waypoint and all your shaping points.
I would suggest if you really want accurate routing use waypoints amongst shaping points. The key thing here is to be aware of which waypoint to select when activating a route.
Jheath explains it here perfectly http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/394565-Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!!/page3 from post #45
When you come to activate the route as you prepare to ride it, you are requested to "select the next destination" when you are at this stage you will notice only waypoints are listed.
if your route was made up of say a start waypoint 10 shaping points and a destination waypoint. at the stage of activation you will only see the two waypoints as options in the "select the next destination"
If you select the start the GPS will guide you to it and along your carefully built route.
If you select the last/destination the GPS will take you to that destination but will ignore your fist waypoint and all your shaping points.
I would suggest if you really want accurate routing use waypoints amongst shaping points. The key thing here is to be aware of which waypoint to select when activating a route.
Jheath explains it here perfectly http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/394565-Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!!/page3 from post #45
The Grey One
Registered user
Are you, and your Nav V, at the start of the route when you do this? A route will calculate on Basecamp without information as to location. Once you transfer the route the device will know,and use, you present location as a starting point. When you ask it to take you to the next destination it will calculate from it's position. If that is different from the position shown on Basecamp ten you will get a different route. I know some folk have an aversion to waypoints but to make a route work properly you do at least need both start and end points as waypoints. In this case the OP appears to be making a route for group use. Members of that group would need to meet at the start point so having a waypoint makes it easy for people to navigate to the collective start point. For a group ride out I would as make stopping points such as lunch stops as waypoints. You want everyone to go thee so the argument that waypoints force you to go there is a case for the waypoint as people could easily miss a via point.
Try making waypoints for the start point, any lunch stops etc, and an end point. Allow Basecamp to plot a route using these points and then drag the route so as to create via points on the roads you want to use. You will end up with a route that can be shared and used by others. If you ensure that everyone uses the same preferences you will find you don't need too many via points. Normally I would use faster time but have avoid motorways ticked.
John
Its pretty simple. (or this is how I do it - which is not to say it is right)
Before you start check these few things:
- Check your NAV 5 is set to "Auto recalculate" OFF this is is settings > Navigation > Off route Recalculation > Set to OFF
- Doesnt matter how you draw your map in Basecamp (either motorcycle or car or old version of maps etc) this will now make sure what you transfer to your device stays as it is.
1. In Basecamp add your start destination and your end destination.
2. Add in any places you want to go as waypoints along the way.
3. Plot your route using the route creation tool in Basecamp - This will give you a way to travel the route as suggested by whatever setting you have in Basecamp (dont worry you dont need to change any preferences apart from make sure there are no avoidance's set)
4. Now zoom in to areas of the route and drag and drop it to the roads you want to go on (Note at this stage it will make the points you drag to waypoints but they are easy to spot and change later) (to drag and drop I have to use ALT and my pointer because I have a Mac)
5. When route finished right click on route and click on GET INFO > highlight the points that are your drag and drop points (not your actual Waypoints that you want to keep and be announced) >right click them (you can select more than one > click "DONT ALERT ON ARRIVAL" - This then makes them shaping points which means they are drive trough without announcing them....
NOW
Transfer route to your device - you may at this stage get a warning on import to your device that the route was made on a different map set with a question "do you want to recalculate the route" > CLICK NO!!!
Go To Apps on your device and the route will be there (I tend to set start time and rest times to give me some idea for route planning but you dont have to do this part (you can also do that on your laptop before import.
When you go to the route remember - your device will not allow off route guidance so if you come off route the sat Nav goes quiet and you move away from the pink line - you have to drive back on to it to start navigating again - you would also have to ignore waypoints if you deviate - to do that scroll in the i wheel and just click ignore the waypoint you want to forget...
I have simplified this process drastically.
There are lots of things you can do or you can set up or ignore.
You will be asked which waypoint you want to go to first - if you have planned your route correctly on Basecamp never any need to do anything but select the first waypoint on the list and click START.
Please note - the only reason your route is recalculating is because YOU HAVE YOUR DEVICE SET TO AUTO RECALCULATE and it will take the points you have given and then try to get you to each of those points either faster, shorter distance or via curvy roads whichever your preference is set at....
Do like you did as a teenager - play with it - eventually you will become good with it - sound familiar......?
Rik
1.
Before you start check these few things:
- Check your NAV 5 is set to "Auto recalculate" OFF this is is settings > Navigation > Off route Recalculation > Set to OFF
- Doesnt matter how you draw your map in Basecamp (either motorcycle or car or old version of maps etc) this will now make sure what you transfer to your device stays as it is.
1. In Basecamp add your start destination and your end destination.
2. Add in any places you want to go as waypoints along the way.
3. Plot your route using the route creation tool in Basecamp - This will give you a way to travel the route as suggested by whatever setting you have in Basecamp (dont worry you dont need to change any preferences apart from make sure there are no avoidance's set)
4. Now zoom in to areas of the route and drag and drop it to the roads you want to go on (Note at this stage it will make the points you drag to waypoints but they are easy to spot and change later) (to drag and drop I have to use ALT and my pointer because I have a Mac)
5. When route finished right click on route and click on GET INFO > highlight the points that are your drag and drop points (not your actual Waypoints that you want to keep and be announced) >right click them (you can select more than one > click "DONT ALERT ON ARRIVAL" - This then makes them shaping points which means they are drive trough without announcing them....
NOW
Transfer route to your device - you may at this stage get a warning on import to your device that the route was made on a different map set with a question "do you want to recalculate the route" > CLICK NO!!!
Go To Apps on your device and the route will be there (I tend to set start time and rest times to give me some idea for route planning but you dont have to do this part (you can also do that on your laptop before import.
When you go to the route remember - your device will not allow off route guidance so if you come off route the sat Nav goes quiet and you move away from the pink line - you have to drive back on to it to start navigating again - you would also have to ignore waypoints if you deviate - to do that scroll in the i wheel and just click ignore the waypoint you want to forget...
I have simplified this process drastically.
There are lots of things you can do or you can set up or ignore.
You will be asked which waypoint you want to go to first - if you have planned your route correctly on Basecamp never any need to do anything but select the first waypoint on the list and click START.
Please note - the only reason your route is recalculating is because YOU HAVE YOUR DEVICE SET TO AUTO RECALCULATE and it will take the points you have given and then try to get you to each of those points either faster, shorter distance or via curvy roads whichever your preference is set at....
Do like you did as a teenager - play with it - eventually you will become good with it - sound familiar......?
Rik
1.
John,
BaseCamp and the Nav V will ALWAYS by default see the start and end points as waypoints. It's not possible to alter these, as any route will always require a definite start and end point, just as it would plotted on a paper map.
The truth is there was nothing too much wrong with the route the OP attached, along with his defiant challenge to anyone to run it on a Nav V, using BaseCamp. Once he understands how two very powerful devices, his BaseCamp equipped computer and his latest generation Nav V work, all will be well. If I can do it on two separate Nav V devices and then run the route on the Nav V's via simulation, anyone can. Rik's and other posts in this section show how easy it really is.
I asked the OP if, when he ran the route, he was anywhere near its start? I am guessing he wasn't. I too can get the full route to display and select 'Take me to waypoint x, y or z' and, not surpprisingly, the device will alter the route as I am starting in London, not Wolverhampton. That will not happen if I turn the device to indoor use, as it has no choice to run the route in simulation as it doesn't know where I am. That will happen whether the OP's route had one or 100 waypoints.
What I think bods are doing is making it over complicated, using all sorts of alternative software, waypoints and whatever over what is really just a very simple, not very long route. It wasn't particularly neatly created but that did not stop it working and running, the OP's defiant bet was lost. It's not helped when bods believe that every time they read that BaseCamp is crap that it becomes the truth, just as it becomes the truth that it's impossible to buy fuel in France without jumping through 50 hoops. Neither is true. I'll accept it's not necessarily always easy but it's not rocket science or open heart surgery either.
All the fellow needs to do now is take things slowly and as simply as possible. He'll get there.
BaseCamp and the Nav V will ALWAYS by default see the start and end points as waypoints. It's not possible to alter these, as any route will always require a definite start and end point, just as it would plotted on a paper map.
The truth is there was nothing too much wrong with the route the OP attached, along with his defiant challenge to anyone to run it on a Nav V, using BaseCamp. Once he understands how two very powerful devices, his BaseCamp equipped computer and his latest generation Nav V work, all will be well. If I can do it on two separate Nav V devices and then run the route on the Nav V's via simulation, anyone can. Rik's and other posts in this section show how easy it really is.
I asked the OP if, when he ran the route, he was anywhere near its start? I am guessing he wasn't. I too can get the full route to display and select 'Take me to waypoint x, y or z' and, not surpprisingly, the device will alter the route as I am starting in London, not Wolverhampton. That will not happen if I turn the device to indoor use, as it has no choice to run the route in simulation as it doesn't know where I am. That will happen whether the OP's route had one or 100 waypoints.
What I think bods are doing is making it over complicated, using all sorts of alternative software, waypoints and whatever over what is really just a very simple, not very long route. It wasn't particularly neatly created but that did not stop it working and running, the OP's defiant bet was lost. It's not helped when bods believe that every time they read that BaseCamp is crap that it becomes the truth, just as it becomes the truth that it's impossible to buy fuel in France without jumping through 50 hoops. Neither is true. I'll accept it's not necessarily always easy but it's not rocket science or open heart surgery either.
All the fellow needs to do now is take things slowly and as simply as possible. He'll get there.
OK lets take a different way of looking at this.
(Nothing to do with Basecamp or map versions)
Its the second day of your holiday you've had breakfast, the bike is packed and warming up your getting ready to depart the hotel and ride that route into the
mountains. The route you have spent some time prepping because you want to ride a specific scenic route.
So you turn on the GPS go to trip planner, select the days route and select "go". The GPS offers a list of waypoints "select the next destination".
My guess is that you are totally oblivious that this is your crucial moment to select the one waypoint that either makes or ruins your day.
You could get distracted by a dropped glove or someone chatting to you but if you select the wrong waypoint despite how many waypoints shaping points you have put in the route the GPS can completely ignore them and take you a different way.
Basically at the stage of "select the next destination" the GPS is saying pick one of these points and i'll take you straight there (depending on your calculation setting) then follow the route.
So if that point is halfway into the route all waypoints and shaping points before it are ignored. if its the last waypoint the whole route is ignored.
Not the anticipated behaviour of the device when selecting from trip planner, you plan a trip you don't expect the device will or can ignore it.
This is something to be aware of not finding out the hard way.
Again it's vital to select the correct waypoint if you re-start a route if you are halfway through it.
pinning a waypoint at or near the start and choosing that one is vital to following the whole route as planned.
(Nothing to do with Basecamp or map versions)
Its the second day of your holiday you've had breakfast, the bike is packed and warming up your getting ready to depart the hotel and ride that route into the
mountains. The route you have spent some time prepping because you want to ride a specific scenic route.
So you turn on the GPS go to trip planner, select the days route and select "go". The GPS offers a list of waypoints "select the next destination".
My guess is that you are totally oblivious that this is your crucial moment to select the one waypoint that either makes or ruins your day.
You could get distracted by a dropped glove or someone chatting to you but if you select the wrong waypoint despite how many waypoints shaping points you have put in the route the GPS can completely ignore them and take you a different way.
Basically at the stage of "select the next destination" the GPS is saying pick one of these points and i'll take you straight there (depending on your calculation setting) then follow the route.
So if that point is halfway into the route all waypoints and shaping points before it are ignored. if its the last waypoint the whole route is ignored.
Not the anticipated behaviour of the device when selecting from trip planner, you plan a trip you don't expect the device will or can ignore it.
This is something to be aware of not finding out the hard way.
Again it's vital to select the correct waypoint if you re-start a route if you are halfway through it.
pinning a waypoint at or near the start and choosing that one is vital to following the whole route as planned.
Alternative simpler view. Don't drop your glove and don't lose too much sleep over it. It's really very, very easy.
The Grey One
Registered user
What you describe is not what happens on my 390. I have just made a route using the latest Garmin map NTU 2017.1 and transferred it to device to double check. If I press Go it does indeed ask for next destination and only shows one point on the route plus the final destination. When I press Start it follows the route I planned including passing through the six via points before the one shown at first as the next destination. As far as I can recall it has done this from new last year. If I stop whilst on a route I simply press the map icon on the screen and the 390 carries on where I left off.
John
OK what does it do if you select the destination which is I guess the second waypoint on the list??
If you have turned off recalculate option and you put in the end waypoint it will still follow the route you have planned - it may however ask if you want to navigate to the start of the route - providing the start and finish waypojnts are not the same one then it would navigate the trip. Be cautious though because as I said above if you come off route when "recalculate" is switched off the device will remain silent and offer no guidance - in this case zoom out and drive back towards your route and it will start to navigate again when you rejoin the pink line.
One tip is if you rejoin a route a considerable distance from where you left it - it will try to send you back to a waypoint if that waypoint is IN the section you missed - if you dont want to go there just go into settings on iwheel and scroll down and then click ignore the waypoint you now want to miss out - it will then let you carry on your route in the correct direction.
A note on BaseCamp - it isnt perfect - it is in fact pretty poor for search facility but by using it often and playing around with Bing Maps (which has a brilliant search function and a fantastic facility of sending coordinates to Basecamp) you can do whatever your heart so desires.
You shouldnt knock BaseCamp after all it is free, it is helpful and it is useful!
Rik
One tip is if you rejoin a route a considerable distance from where you left it - it will try to send you back to a waypoint if that waypoint is IN the section you missed - if you dont want to go there just go into settings on iwheel and scroll down and then click ignore the waypoint you now want to miss out - it will then let you carry on your route in the correct direction.
A note on BaseCamp - it isnt perfect - it is in fact pretty poor for search facility but by using it often and playing around with Bing Maps (which has a brilliant search function and a fantastic facility of sending coordinates to Basecamp) you can do whatever your heart so desires.
You shouldnt knock BaseCamp after all it is free, it is helpful and it is useful!
Rik
OK, what does it do if you create a route from say, central London to Penzance, with a waypoint (for a 'must do' lunch stop) en-route in Exeter and another waypoint for a 'must do' stop on Bodmin for a wee, when you start running the route from your home here in the UK, which I take it is nowhere near London, Penzance, Exeter or Bodmin?
Richard
The Grey One
Registered user
As you would expect it then misses out the via points before that one. Seems logical as I would be in effect telling it to do that. It then carried on with the route.
John
The Grey One
Registered user
As I don't want to turn off the recalculate option I will just carry on downloading routes that work as I have done for years. A properly made route works just the way I want as it is. I like the device to sort things out for me if I go off route or meet a diversion. I'm a big boy so I know I don't have to obey the thing if I don't want to.
As for Basecamp the fact it is free has no relevance to discussion about it's merit. Mapsource is free, Tyre is free and both of them are far easier to use than Basecamp.
John
The Grey One
Registered user
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