Nav V Routes recalculating :(

[Andy63]

As you would expect it then misses out the via points before that one. Seems logical as I would be in effect telling it to do that. It then carried on with the route.

John

Not quite yes it misses out the via point/shaping point and first waypoint and creates its own route to that destination it does not carry on with your base camp route.
When you select the destination waypoint, view your route on the map before you press start you will notice all via points and the first waypoint is no longer visible therefore it has calculated a new route

I have to say that my experience it with the 590 so it may be there is a difference in functionality but I'm assuming the nav v and 590 are based on each other.

 

[Riktus]

As I don't want to turn off the recalculate option I will just carry on downloading routes that work as I have done for years. A properly made route works just the way I want as it is. I like the device to sort things out for me if I go off route or meet a diversion. I'm a big boy so I know I don't have to obey the thing if I don't want to.

As for Basecamp the fact it is free has no relevance to discussion about it's merit. Mapsource is free, Tyre is free and both of them are far easier to use than Basecamp.

John

This is fine but the OP asked why his route constantly changed from the one he programmed in - I often change to recalculate when I want to do a simple route - if I want to go to ALL the route I would turn it off.

We're all big boys and can choose what we want - I was only offering help and advice to someone who asked.

Mapsource doesn't work on my Mac and Tyre is a lot of faffing around but I wouldn't advocate that you don't use them - use what your comfortable with.

 

[DJ GSA]

Thanks again all. I am amazed by the wealth of knowledge and the responses. And I thought I knew a bit lol.

I have finally worked it all out using the Jersey_GS method as my starting point. Adding way points and dragging the map in BC onto the route I want to use.
I will be trying it for real this weekend to make sure it does what I need it to do.
I have left "Off Route Navigation" turned on as its not improbable that I'll be admiring scenery or something and miss a turning at some point.
I'll let you know how I get on, either that or I'll be making my way back from Scotland

 

[The Grey One]

Not quite yes it misses out the via point/shaping point and first waypoint and creates its own route to that destination it does not carry on with your base camp route.
When you select the destination waypoint, view your route on the map before you press start you will notice all via points and the first waypoint is no longer visible therefore it has calculated a new route

I have to say that my experience it with the 590 so it may be there is a difference in functionality but I'm assuming the nav v and 590 are based on each other.

But it does carry on! The 390 must be different (better?) I have tried my test route several times each time selecting a different destination from the list. Each time it navigates using the preferences I have set to that destination and then carries on with the planned route. I have done this four times now and the original route remains as was planned with all its via points . No other routes are shown as being created by this process. If I now select the first destination from the list the route is followed as originally intended. If I turn the device off at any point, as I would if I stopped to admire a view/take a leak etc on turning the device back on pressing the map icon allows me to carry on with that same route.

John

 

[Andy63]

Ah OK I am assuming the 590 and 390 have similar functionality this must be a feature of the 590 because of better CPU, I do agree the 390 is better in this respect if the route remains intact.

I have some routes for a trip to France with a group of mates of which several have 390's and I will be loading the routes so will have a look this.

What I was trying to explain mid route is if you stop the route and then restart it not turn off the GPS.

 

[The Grey One]

Ah OK I am assuming the 590 and 390 have similar functionality this must be a feature of the 590 because of better CPU, I do agree the 390 is better in this respect if the route remains intact.

I have some routes for a trip to France with a group of mates of which several have 390's and I will be loading the routes so will have a look this.

What I was trying to explain mid route is if you stop the route and then restart it not turn off the GPS.

I would expect every every device to recalculate differently if you actually tell it to stop a route part way through. Isn't that what you are doing by telling it to stop the route? What most folk do is turn the bike, and hence the device, off when they stop for a coffee for instance. Then you just want it to carry on with the route. The 390 does this, I press the map icon and away it goes. My old 2610 just got on with it without any prompting, progress I suppose!.

As to a better CPU I really don't know. I can tell you is that it's route functions and the way it works appears to be no different from other newer Garmin devices including both the Nav V and our cheap car mounted device. I do have experience of downloading routes to hundreds of devices including the Nav V and 590. I also had daily feedback as to how these routes worked. I did find that I had to tweak some routes to cope with the newer devices-mostly just adding a via point or two. There were also problems with the "next destination" nonsense until I worked out that using the Map icon solved this issue

The more expensive versions just seem to have more add ons. Personally I don't need most of those features which is why I bought a 390 and not a 590. Granted the latter has a bigger screen but I don't find the screen size on he 390 a problem. I can tell you that the process of downloading to a Nav V seemed to take much longer than to a 390 or indeed a 660. Often the same route was downloaded to several devices for a group to use. I would always start with any Nav Vs as that way the guys with other devices would not have to wait too long for their mate's Nav V to load up.

John

 

[Tomcat]

I think that a great deal of confusion (in the Nav V at least) is down to the poor design of the user interface and the steps needed to follow a pre-planned route. You have to look under Apps, Trip Planner, Unscheduled Trips. After selecting the route and pressing GO you are now asked to select your next destination. Logically you might select the end waypoint but this is absolutely wrong as the device will calculate a fresh route to this point. You actually need to select the FIRST point in the list.

If you're not actually at this first location it will calculate a route to take you there, otherwise you simply start following the magenta line. If you're starting from a point a little way into the planned route you may need activate the route by selecting the route starting point but then skip this first waypoint (if it is behind you) and just carry on riding the route. BTW, it is possible to place the 'skip waypoint' icon on the map screen to save digging down into the menu using the scroll wheel. Goodness knows why Garmin don't place this icon there as a default along with the red cross to stop the route.

A couple of other points: you can turn off the Nav V part way through a route. Turn it on again, select 'map' and you're following the currently active route again. The 'off' button only puts the device to 'sleep' and doesn't turn it completely off (the internal battery will gradually flatten over a few weeks and the device will then go completely off)

If everything has gone tits-up and your carefully planned route looks to have been wrecked by a recalc to a distant waypoint, just stop the active route (red cross on map screen), then go back to Apps, Trip Planner etc. and start again. In the worst case you may have to import the route again, which you do in the Trip Planner, 3-bar icon, Import.

One final point. Another poster on this forum http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...av-V-590-The-latest-generation-Garmin-devices demonstrated that Basecamp creates a whole lot of shaping points that are not visible to the user. So a route transferred from Basecamp to one of the newer Garmins is not defined solely by the waypoints and shaping points input by the user, but has many other points as well, to ensure that what appears on the satnav is what is intended by the user. Mapsource and Tyre simply don't do this and the folk who persist in using these programs with the latest generation of Garmin devices almost always end up having to use work rounds, or complain that the satnav doesn't work as they expect it to.

 

[The Grey One]

.................

One final point. Another poster on this forum http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...av-V-590-The-latest-generation-Garmin-devices demonstrated that Basecamp creates a whole lot of shaping points that are not visible to the user. So a route transferred from Basecamp to one of the newer Garmins is not defined solely by the waypoints and shaping points input by the user, but has many other points as well, to ensure that what appears on the satnav is what is intended by the user. Mapsource and Tyre simply don't do this and the folk who persist in using these programs with the latest generation of Garmin devices almost always end up having to use work rounds, or complain that the satnav doesn't work as they expect it to.

Mapsource creates such points, always has as far as I can remember. They are not normally visible but if you highlight a route and use the selection tool to point along your route you will see them. I have just checked a route of 259 miles, there are 14 via points between the start and the destination but looking on the map there are over 800 numbered points along the entire route. Incidentally this route has a start point (home) and an end point (hotel in Yorkshire) as waypoints, All other points are shown both in Mapsource and the 390 as via points. Pressing start and selecting the final destination does NOT result in the device recalculating the route, it instructs me to follow what is my planned route in every detail.

I have used both Mapsource and Basecamp to transfer routes. If I use Basecamp I always re calculate before transferring the route. If the Basecamp versions work as you say then I don't think we would have so many frustrated users. I have not found any real disadvantage to using Mapsource and routes so transferred seem to work as intended. As I have said before this is based on practical experience with literally hundreds of different devices over a period of seven years.

One final point, when faced with loading maybe six routes to five devices so that a group staying with us had choice good choice of routes I can tell you that the transfer can be made very much quicker using Mapsource rather than Basecamp. On many occasion Basecamp took ages to simply recognise the Nav V was there, and before anyone jumps in to say use the Garmin lead, I have several! And why the bloody thing has to load the internal map before allowing you to proceed is beyond me. I appreciate that this is not a problem most will have but even loading one route for my own use I find the unnecessary delay frustrating.



John

 

[Wapping]

Good post from Tomcat.

You can sometimes see the extra breadcrumbs laid in (or on) a Garmin prepared route if you import it into OSM without the detailed maps. Instead of few blue shaping points and maybe the occasional flag for a waypoint, you may well see hundreds of yellow flags, each a breadcrumb, not dissimilar to a route plotted out point by point in the old Mapsource method.

 

[Tomcat]

One final point, when faced with loading maybe six routes to five devices so that a group staying with us had choice good choice of routes I can tell you that the transfer can be made very much quicker using Mapsource rather than Basecamp. On many occasion Basecamp took ages to simply recognise the Nav V was there, and before anyone jumps in to say use the Garmin lead, I have several! And why the bloody thing has to load the internal map before allowing you to proceed is beyond me. I appreciate that this is not a problem most will have but even loading one route for my own use I find the unnecessary delay frustrating.



John

True, but easily overcome. Export the route from Basecamp or whatever, in GPX format. Shut down Basecamp, then plug in the satnav, and using Windows Explorer copy and paste the GPX file into a folder on the satnav SD card '\Garmin\GPX'. Import manually (if necessary) on the satnav via Apps, Trip Planner, 3-bar icon, Import.

If you're like me and want a 'long stop' backup, export the GPX file from Basecamp into a Dropbox folder. Then if necessary, you can download the file on any Windows PC that you come across on your travels by logging into your Dropbox account, and send the file to the satnav via USB.

 

[Wapping]

On my Mac, I simply drag the route(s) from BaseCamp into the device's SD card. They find themselves into the correct Garmin folder automatically. Takes seconds.

There is a reason why BaseCamp draws maps across from a unit and it's all (rather like windy roads) to cater for lazy bikers. Most use their devices to take them from A to B, so they do not need to plot routes on their computer; so they save maybe an hour or two of their lazy lives by not bothering to update the maps on their PC.

But, just occasionally they do need to use their PC and they need it FAST....

Garmin makes a not unreasonable assumption that the lazy biker might just need the detailed maps, so it draws them across just as fast as its little wheels can manage. That it makes the lazy biker rant that it takes a minute or two each time is just a happy byproduct.

 

[The Grey One]

On my Mac, I simply drag the route(s) from BaseCamp into the device's SD card. They find themselves into the correct Garmin folder automatically. Takes seconds.

There is a reason why BaseCamp draws maps across from a unit and it's all (rather like windy roads) to cater for lazy bikers. Most use their devices to take them from A to B, so they do not need to plot routes on their computer; so they save maybe an hour or two of their lazy lives by not bothering to update the maps on their PC.

But, just occasionally they do need to use their PC and they need it FAST....

Garmin makes a not unreasonable assumption that the lazy biker might just need the detailed maps, so it draws them across just as fast as its little wheels can manage. That it makes the lazy biker rant that it takes a minute or two each time is just a happy byproduct.

I could understand that if it did so when the map on Basecamp is not the latest one or even when it does not match that of the device. Doing it every time is a nonsense and is typical of what I find frustrating about Basecamp. Garmin ditched a product that worked and replaced it with one that has now taken years of development to get it to a stage where it is somewhere near fit for purpose. In trying to make a "one size fits all" system they have made something that requires far too much effort to get to grips with. I fully accept that it is possible to learn how to use Basecamp and take advantage of it's many features. It does,and I think you would agree, take time and effort. We all have a finite store of both of these.

Now choosing not to give either time or effort should not be confused with laziness. I look at the cost/benefit and find for me the one far outweighs the other. I have a routing system that does almost all I could want, one that I know very well, one that allows me to quickly and reliably plot routes to suit my needs and then transfer said routes to mine or other devices. I keep Basecamp up to date and play with in from time to time. As yet, and for me, it does not offer any advantage over what I have to warrant investing further time and effort. This may change of course but I am not holding my breath!

John