New 1200 section on forum please

Wizard said:
But that isn't, unfortunately, the issue. The issue is that we get 500 "my gearbox is broken" posts with no resolution, and the peeps who are genuinely interested in finding out what the problem might be end up trolling through 500 basically useless posts.

The thing is, is there an answer? Or are we just stuck with it?
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So what? The point is there shouldnt be 500 broken gear boxes to comment on. The whole point of the forum is for the bad and good things to come out, and. Life is littered with irrelevancies and the same old stuff coming up over and over - you just have live with it and filter it out. If you are in a pub and you experience that, you move on in one of many ways, and if you don't like doing that or can't do it, I dunno what to suggest. Perhaps live at the one of the poles? I really don't get your problem...
 
Wizard said:
But that isn't, unfortunately, the issue. The issue is that we get 500 "my gearbox is broken" posts with no resolution, and the peeps who are genuinely interested in finding out what the problem might be end up trolling through 500 basically useless posts.

The thing is, is there an answer? Or are we just stuck with it?
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When things like gearboxes go wrong, they're replaced by the dealer who puts it in a box and sends it to Germany. BMW will undoubtedly strip down the gearbox (unless they're already confident why it failed) and feed the results back to their design/manufacturing departments who will seek to improve the design.

Thus the later bikes are better than the earlier ones.

They'll never tell you what went wrong, they'll probably never admit there's even a problem. But they will seek to fix it.

In that respect, BMW are good but wouldn't you rather they sold you a fully developed bike in the first place? If they could...
 
WindyChuffer said:
So what? The point is there shouldnt be 500 broken gear boxes to comment on.
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But there aren't 500 broken gearboxes, there are ten. We just keep hearing about the same ones over and over.
 
Pressurized said:
They'll never tell you what went wrong, they'll probably never admit there's even a problem. But they will seek to fix it.

In that respect, BMW are good but wouldn't you rather they sold you a fully developed bike in the first place? If they could...
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There is no way that any manufacturer can know what's going to happen when they put anything into the market for the first time, and they will all use customer feedback to improve their product, that much is true. The thing is that, on this forum, you hear about every single isue with BMW's. You'll hear all the issues with Honda's on a Honda forum, Suzuki's on a Suzuki forum and so on. Fair enough. But you also get repeat after repeat of the same "I'm Joe and my bike did xyz" which gives a false impression of unreliability, and goes a long way to gloss over the improvements made.
 
Wizard said:
But there aren't 500 broken gearboxes, there are ten. We just keep hearing about the same ones over and over.
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Somehow i get the feeling that numbers are getting plucked out of thin air...

With regard to manufacturers knowing what's going to happen to their products in the market, it really depends how rigorously they test them in conjunction with statistical analysis. Depends what their budget it is, their forecast sales and profits... Cars vs bikes and all that, with bikes being significantly smaller than cars.
 
This place wouldn't be the place it is without the silly, stupid, negative and positive posts.

No one comes back too often to a forum that is just tecnicial... and in case you lot haven't noticed we all like a bit of conflict... it gives us something to think about and post against or for :D

Not enough people use the search function properly or at all :rolleyes:

Answers to most queries are in here somewhere :D

i know in a perfect world we would be able to search well laid out queries and help sections
but it's not perfect :D But i say live with it's quirks :thumb :D

As for newbies... most don't read forum rules when they join... they can't be bothered... and to be honest i can't blame them.

So a little slack and a nudge in the right direction maybe all it takes to set the guy off in the right direction..... being to harsh on someones first post or two can put them off coming here for good or put them off posting again... in the fear of being shot down.

It's too easy for us who know the ins and outs of forums and forum etiquette... to forget what it's like in a forum for the first time.

And what may seem like a dumb question we've heard the answer to hundreds of times may have stumped and baffled the asker for weeks.

I've learned loads of stuff i've had no idea about beforehand from being on here... and there is always something new to learn.

The other thing is the 1200 section is likely used by the shortest staying members.. i.e. bought a GS as a trend last year and are heading on to something else this year... the older bikes on the whole have a more dedicated following.

Also i'd far rather know the possibilities of parts failure etc than go into something not knowing and be disappointed.
 
Wizard said:
Yes they are. As an example.
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Well unless numbers quoted have any statistical merit or credibility in their source, any point made in reference to them is totally worthless.

By your own admission, you are plucking numbers out of thin air which brings me to question exactly what your point is. If you are going to make a point, please put forward a credible argument.
 
Fanum said:
Graham....some posts that just slag the bike are moved, and pointless jibes don't have a place here , I'd agree with you on that.

We do have a filter, just like you suggest...His name's Ken and he's cute.

He's in a bit of a no-win situation though isn't he.....

If Dahoum deletes posts by an 11xx/airhead owner that knock the 1200, he'd be accused of being too protective, lacking in a sense of humour (which he most certainly isn't) and being too touchy.....

If he doesn't delete them, some 1200 owners get het up and defensive......

Catch 22.

:(
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Totally agree Fanum. My tonque is largely in my cheek and I see your point about a no-win situation for the Moderators. For me, all the posts are informative. Somehow things eventually condense down and for me it's created a new realisation: things might go wrong with any bike, it's the nature of the beast. But until it does, just enjoy it. And that's exactly why I bought it. Because I want to enjoy it. :clap But it's so easy to get caught on a negative wave (should I being saying "Man" after that?).
 
'Info, photo's, tech sepc.... etc' - that is what this thread is supposed to be about and that covers a wide range and is obviously not just technical. I seem to have posted a lot of messages - now perhaps I had better check and see if they were all relevant. I ride my bike everyday, winter and summer and I generally get on to this forum in the evening to simply share my enthusiasm for a marvellous bike.
 
WindyChuffer said:
Somehow i get the feeling that numbers are getting plucked out of thin air...
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Well, yeah, Wizard mentioned '500' then he mentioned 'ten'.

There is a way manufacturers can determine how their gearboxes and everything else will react and it's called Product Testing. It involves them riding the bikes in arduous conditions for extended periods. It's not free and, while they may do it to a greater or lesser extent, how does it sound if the manufacturer 'recruits' a bunch of willing peeps to do it for them. Feedback comes via the dealers in the form of little boxes of broken bike bits and improvements are made.

Of course, you have to treat your 'beta testers' right and this involves no quibble warranty repairs, polite dealers and genuine improvement in the medium-term, together with, I hope, buy-back of the prototypes for a hefty wedge in exchange for version 1.0.

Don't get me wrong, BMW by and large do the right thing. Most are satisfied and they make great bikes. But let's not kid ourselves that this is not what they're doing.
 
well!

i like all the moaning.. when i think about buying a R1200GS i just have a quick look at the 1200 section, bottle out and go and buy something else as unreliable like another motoguzzi :D nick
 
WindyChuffer said:
Well unless numbers quoted have any statistical merit or credibility in their source, any point made in reference to them is totally worthless.

By your own admission, you are plucking numbers out of thin air which brings me to question exactly what your point is. If you are going to make a point, please put forward a credible argument.
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WC, I think, the figure used was a figure of speech, as the questions asked are often repeated here, everyweek. The longer you hang about the more you will notice it. It was a hypothetical example of what can happen here, quiet easily.
Really if you, did take the time to troll, you'd see what I mean. I don't know how many of us have a 12, but I would conservatively estimate, at least a third. Therefore, I'm confident, that if you took the time to do a bit of research, you would find there are, in actual fact very few with problems, in proportion to the membership. My point and Wizards, I think, is that the wrong impression, can be so easily given...., just like I detect a hint of aggression in most of your points made so far, but I'm sure I'm wrong about that, aren't I :thumb
 
Schwarz Baron said:
...I'm confident, that if you took the time to do a bit of research, you would find there are, in actual fact very few with problems, in proportion to the membership
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You don't know this. It's impossible for anyone on this site to 'research' a definitive study on 1200 reliability. Only BMW know for sure.

I can, perhaps, give you an example of how well BMW know their bikes' failings... when my GS broke down 2 miles form the dealer's after its 6,000 mile service, they had it going again in a quarter of an hour after a replacement of the fuel pump relay. It had the finesse (and glamour) of an F1 pitstop. They were impressive but they weren't in any way surprised.
 
Pressurized said:
You don't know this. It's impossible for anyone on this site to 'research' a definitive study on 1200 reliability. Only BMW know for sure.
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That's right, I don't, but as stated, I would be confident....
 
Schwarz Baron said:
Therefore, I'm confident, that if you took the time to do a bit of research, you would find there are, in actual fact very few with problems, in proportion to the membership
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Was there not a poll that had 20% of respondents reporting serious problems with their bikes?

I'd class "very few" as being something of the order of 1-2%. I'd class 20% (If I have remembered the numbers right) as being quite bad.
 
Schwarz Baron said:
That's right, I don't, but as stated, I would be confident....
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But why would you be confident if you have no way of knowing the nubers?

Let me guess, you are not a scientist?
 
NorthernBoy said:
But why would you be confident if you have no way of knowing the nubers?

Let me guess, you are not a scientist?
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20% of the respondants eh!, so everyone that owns a 12 on here responded did they? as you are the font of all knowledge, I would expect an answer!!

You still haven't changed my mind, but I would suspect that's not your motive, for having a go....

If your refering to this poll

Then I think it adds upto 147 bikes....As I said, I would be confident, that there are a few more 1200s on here than that....and the whole point of this thread originally I think was that false impressions had been given, which on this occasion I personally agree with...
 
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