New to biking, never mind GS-ing! Need advice!

[Alphason]

Statistics are fine, and you can prove or disprove almost any point if you manipulate them well enough. They may be absolutely correct in this case, but we're talking about an individual who wants to buy a 650 BMW. I'd say it's a sensible choice - forgiving, low revs, relatively low power, stable and well balanced. I'd be more concerned if he was in the market for an R6 or a GSXR1000!

 

[GrinningGSer]

now I know my limits and (touch wood) haven't had any near mishaps for a while.

I could not agree more!

But how do you learn your limits? Infortunately I believe that this is only by trial and ERROR

I have always believed that it is not the bikes that are dangerous, it is the temptation that such power has on our brains that causes the problems. I envy the mopeds that zip around everything, but have learned that sooner or later someone in a tin can will not see one and will crush it !

If you are not mature enough to control temptation or have not learned your limits, then keep your limits restrained by a smaller engine size

However, the boxer engine has probably the best design for leg protection that I can think of. Fall off a jap bike and your legs are probably crushed. I learned this lesson years ago. I always ride with crash bars AND boxes with the hope that my next drop (which undoubtedly will happen) will limit bone and soft tissue crushing

I learned on private land on a Tiger 100 (500cc), first bike Honda CB200, several accidents incl hospital, then jumped to K100RS- and it was a big jump. Rode that for many years with no accidents, but dropped it twice with weight inexperience when using stands.

I am not tempting fate commenting on R1200GS, but its upright commanding riding position and best brakes that I have experienced gives great feeling of security, but immense torque can launch you into trouble bloody fast- IF YOU CANNOT AVOID TEMPTATION

 

[Mouse]

I have two friends who are new to biking, they both did a DAS course and each bought a BMW 650CS. They were both more than happy with the choice.

I think the 650 is much more newbie friendly than most alternatives (eg fazer, hornet, bandit etc) and remember it's got even less BHP than a CB500.

Personally I worked my way up though a series of bikes, 125cc, 250, 500, 600, now 1200 but as long as you get adequate training and keep your wits about you I reckon the 650 would be a good place to start. As someone else said, it's not like he's proposing to pass the DAS and get on an R1.

 

[topper]

What have I started!?

Othello is right I'm sure - start small, gain experience, get bigger - is the safest route to go down - same with most things in life that have a risk associated from driving to mountaineering to scuba diving to whisky drinking!

One thing that all comments have in common though is that it is down to the rider's maturity to keep it under control, to take it seriously and learn to ride safely and gain as much experience as possible while staying well within your limits. I'm confident (but not cocky) that from what I've been told and read here, that I can handle a 650 - if all the postings said "No way newbie" then I'd certainly think again.

Useful debate and good to see hear both sides of the argument.

 

[topper]

Referring to the earlier link to the Dept of Transport study, reading on to page 53 states that several studies have shown that it is age rather than actual experience that is critical - more young riders have more accidents.

I know the dangers to born agains like me are real, but as always there are lies, damned lies and statistics!

PS at 34 I'd rather be called "born again" than "mid-life crisis"!

 

[Little legs]

Topper,

I have dropped all of my last bikes 50cc vespa pissed up wheelie comp in my back yard. r1150r dropped twice r1150gs dropped in the middle of nowhere on me own in the mud without me mobile. Im only a little fella 5 foot 6 10.5 stone but managed to pick her up and kep on going.

Go for the GS youn will love it

 

[Jon451]

Buy an 1150

I did and it was the best move I made. It is big and it is heavy but you just get used to it.

I bought it brand new three years ago after doing direct access. However prior to this I'd ridden a scooter for years.

I believe you just need to treat any machine with respect and understand your real ability. I(Touch wood), have not had an accident, however I have dropped it twice - one off the stand and once doing a doughnut on snow.

Follow your heart

 

[StooL]

I personally think the 650 would be a good choice.

You say you have no biking experience but can you handle a bicycle? I've spent more time cycling (raced mounain bikes a few times) than walking and when I first got on a motorbike it didn't feel 'alien' to me. I think I already had a good sense of balance and understanding of the feeling of grip, lean and braking forces etc.

My first bike was an old Suzuki GS500, purchased after a direct access course on a 125! Maybe it was more good fortune than skill that let me survive this experience. It handled like a burst couch and the brakes were almost non existent. I then moved onto a Fazer 600 which was much faster but I believe a hell of a lot safer. Difference being, I showed it more respect even though it was a bike that you could make mistakes on. You could change line mid corner or even dab the brakes if needed! I feel the 650GS is also a bike that you can make mistakes on and hopefully get away with. I personally wouldn't put the 1150GS in this class. By mistakes I mean stalling at junctions, too heavy on the throttle in the wet or going slightly too hot into a bend etc. Mistakes that will inevitably happen and you will hopefully still be alive to learn from. These are mistakes that can rarely be made on a small capacity bike or scooter and therefore I feel that you don't gain much from riding them. They are useful in that they control the speed at which you're travelling and that's good for people with no sense. However, you are mature enough to ask for advice on this forum, so I would say that you are mature enough to learn to ride on a 650GS.

My most important piece of advice is to go out alone, engage your brain and learn. Ride different roads and surfaces and always look way, way down the road ahead. Go to a private road or empty car park and practise slow speed manoeuvres and emergency stops until they become second nature. Don't go out with your mates and use the 'I must keep up with them' attitude!

 

[boxer]

My bro-inlaw was advised by his instructor after one 2hrs refresher course that a Fazer 1000 would be a 'perfect' bike for him. He knew my bro had only ridden a Yamaha 100 for 6mnths 25 yrs ago.

That's just irresponsible advice IMO. I'm trying to talk him into a 650 V-Strom but he seems to have a 600 Fazer in mind, and at 98bhp that's way too much.

This 'you don't have to twist the throttle' argument I don't get - why bother then?

If you brought a house and only used the downstairs half people would think you mad. Buy 135bhp [or for that matter 98bhp] and only usethe first 60 and people think you're a hero?

 

[Alphason]

My bro-inlaw was advised by his instructor after one 2hrs refresher course that a Fazer 1000 would be a 'perfect' bike for him. He knew my bro had only ridden a Yamaha 100 for 6mnths 25 yrs ago.

That's just irresponsible advice IMO. I'm trying to talk him into a 650 V-Strom but he seems to have a 600 Fazer in mind, and at 98bhp that's way too much.

This 'you don't have to twist the throttle' argument I don't get - why bother then?

If you brought a house and only used the downstairs half people would think you mad. Buy 135bhp [or for that matter 98bhp] and only usethe first 60 and people think you're a hero?

You shouldn't be worrying about what people think, only about you're own attitude and ability. If his attitude is wrong he'll do as much harm on the VStrom as the he will on Fazer.

If he knows his limits and stays within them he can have an enjoyable but safe time on a 98hp bike.

 

[Mouse]

Fazer 600 doesn't have that much power, more like 85 bhp It's all academic though, it's what you do with it that counts

The 600 IS a cracking bike. I'm not sure I'd want to have had one as my first big bike, but for someone who has the self control to handle it responsibly, maybe it would be ok. But I think, when you are a newbie, you have enough to worry about without the possibility of a careless throttle movement scaring the sheet out of you.

If anyone's interested I'm selling my Fazer, pm me for info

Talking of irresponsible advice .. someone I know who had just passed his DAS asked one of the instructors about Fazers ... he was advised that the fazer 600 is "a bit of a girls bike" and that he "would have trouble overtaking cars". WTF!? Luckily good sense prevailed He bought a BMW but the engine blew up!

 

[Minustide]

My personal exprience began at the age of 14 in 1968 and I learned on a friends 175cc Bultaco and did not ride street until I owned my own 100cc Hodaka Ace 100B at the age of 16 in 1970. Both of these being dirt bikes. I rode more dirt than street and have learned that slow speed manuvering (manoevering to you foreigners) in the dirt was an invaluable stepping stone to proficiency on the street. I stepped up to a 1970 Yamaha XS-1 650cc street machine when I was 18.
Of course being a testoserone poisened teenager I would crank the throttle to the stop fairly frequently but as trials riding was a big deal at the time I spent alot of time perfecting my balance at slower speeds.
A 100cc slaughtersycle can kill you at 60 MPH as thoroughly as a 650 at 90 MPH. Anything over 45 MPH exceeds the body's ability to take a straight on impact. Learning slow and small gives one a respect for a simple fact... velocity = impact energy.
The 650cc GS sounds like a reasonable beginners bike to me if you pass your test but I would suggest you work on very low speed manuvers as much as you ride in traffic to get your balance and reflexes in shape.
I have owned 7 machines with the 1150 GS being my 7th and I love it. However!!! I would never recommend this beast to a novice or even an intermediate rider as it's high center of gravity and weight are formidable. You need to be an Advanced Intermediate rider to operate this thing without alot of apprehension setting in and it will force you to become an expert. You will drop it and usually at a stop... frequently with the engine off! Been there, done that.
I had my seat customized in Seattle Wa by Rich's Seats and as I am 5'8" with a 29" inseam. I told Rich "I'm not so concerned about comfort as I am about control". He got me to where I can touch with the balls of my feet on both sides of the machine and I can get one foot flat on either side. This can still be a bit touchy for control at a stop.
I think your choice of the 650 GS is wise and if you have any apprehension about seat height have it modified as confidence goes way up when a machine fits you properly.

Regards, Minustide