So which you'd prefer, to throughoutly Nikwax your textile clothing and leave the rain clothing home, or, take the rain clothing and don't care about Nikwax thingy going on a longer trip?
Nikwax or separate rain clothing?
- Thread starter Tsiklonaut
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Toubab
Just buy Goretex 
(RIP) Bin Ridin
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I bought a breathable cycling jacket to wear over a textile jacket, to stay dry and to keep it a bit cleaner.
Tsiklonaut said:
Neither....
I use the BMW clothing... OK I know it's expensive but it does what it says on the tin! Two year warranty... I'll be doing 20,000 to 30,000 miles in those two years
So I don't need Nikwax and the waterproof oversuits are a pain in the arse. Starts to rain, you eventually stop to put the suit on... it stops raining and now you're in a sauna. Take the bloody thing off and it starts raining again!
Frinstance... Atlantis pants, cost probably close to £400, but done 100,000 miles in 'em, rolled across the tarmac at Oulton Park, still 'look the part', still totally waterproof, not coming apart, and superbly comfortable... a bargain
Gucci family moto.... "The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten!"
Hope this helps Tsiklonaut
Well... I don't trust GoreTex, it may be waterproof, but with really HUGE rain it starts to come through neck area and other spots it usually don't. Also even with small rain it's gets bleedingly cold even on some normal temperature day because you may be dry, but it still let's the wind and some humidity in and it's very uncomfortable in many conditions you face on longer trips.
Don't like the leathers - natevely bad breathing mostly. And even if it has a good active ventilation system, the lether still feels strange to wear, dunno why... Maybe i'll give it another try in the future.
I like the rain clothing because i can put it on on a cold day, if there's even no rain, makes a warm riding even below freezing point using only summer clothing under it, so it's a good alternative to liners and other warm clothing you may leave home - thin rain clothing take a lot less space IMHO. And you can drive no matter how intense the rain is.
I haven't tryed the Nikwax yet (well, only on a Tent and it worked a threat), but some experienced travellers like Helge Pedersen seem to rave about them on clothing. Dunno if it's true or not. So i was a bit curious about this Nikwax thingy...
Don't like the leathers - natevely bad breathing mostly. And even if it has a good active ventilation system, the lether still feels strange to wear, dunno why... Maybe i'll give it another try in the future.
I like the rain clothing because i can put it on on a cold day, if there's even no rain, makes a warm riding even below freezing point using only summer clothing under it, so it's a good alternative to liners and other warm clothing you may leave home - thin rain clothing take a lot less space IMHO. And you can drive no matter how intense the rain is.
I haven't tryed the Nikwax yet (well, only on a Tent and it worked a threat), but some experienced travellers like Helge Pedersen seem to rave about them on clothing. Dunno if it's true or not. So i was a bit curious about this Nikwax thingy...
Tsiklonaut said:
my rukka* lets NO rain in & i've used it in some very big rain. ask anyone who went to garmisch this year what it was like.
it's the warmest bike suit i've ever had, though it was a bit nippy coming back from the BF2 event in november.
it doesn't let wind in.
it's rather hot when the weather is hot (so not really a problem here
)it's guaranteed for 5 years
*dunno what model it is, but it's one with laminated gore tex XR, not the cheaper loose membrane one.
Tsiklonaut said:
So it don't matter what you wear if it comes in at the neck! THAT'S not the fault of the material, just the wearer!
Don't like leathers misen, but having done some 250,000 miles on the four valve boxers it's just gotta be G O R E T E X
Cold... tried an electric vest? Like GPS and MZ's... the only people that call 'em are those that have never used 'em!
dirtydog
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Gortex is pretty good stuff. The biggest problem is that people who wear the stuff don't where the proper clothing to go under it. This can lead to a build up of heat rendering the wearer damp, this makes them believe the suit is leaking.......WRONG!
COOLMAX material should ideally be worn under Gortex.
I've used other technical materials like Gortex which are cheaper and just as effective. Gortex is hugely over priced. They were the pioneers of the breathable membrane, but this doesn't mean they stand head and shoulders above the rest! When on a tight budget, check out cheaper alternatives such as SHELLTEX, SYMPATEX etc
COOLMAX material should ideally be worn under Gortex.
I've used other technical materials like Gortex which are cheaper and just as effective. Gortex is hugely over priced. They were the pioneers of the breathable membrane, but this doesn't mean they stand head and shoulders above the rest! When on a tight budget, check out cheaper alternatives such as SHELLTEX, SYMPATEX etc
Marty Gutenfart
Registered user
Can't beat leather. When have you ever seen a cow wearing goretex? They're out in all weathers, get covered in shit and still last a lifetime in total comfort.
You've got to wear something under it if the temperature is low, or your sweat blocks the pores, and once that starts it's no longer breathable, and it all goes downhill from there.
Cookie mentioned goretex xtr, it's got some sort of laminated inner to prevent some of this effect. - xtended temp range I think it stands for.
You got a rallye2 didn't you? Just make sure that the outer has been washed with the nikwax proofer and wear ski-underwear and you'll be fine. It will eventually turn damp on the inside, but you'll probably be fed up with riding in the rain by then anyway. - 6hrs or so in Ireland for fanum, nadeem and I (2 R2, 1 roadcrafter) had all 3 pretty soaked so we packed it in.
Cookie mentioned goretex xtr, it's got some sort of laminated inner to prevent some of this effect. - xtended temp range I think it stands for.
You got a rallye2 didn't you? Just make sure that the outer has been washed with the nikwax proofer and wear ski-underwear and you'll be fine. It will eventually turn damp on the inside, but you'll probably be fed up with riding in the rain by then anyway. - 6hrs or so in Ireland for fanum, nadeem and I (2 R2, 1 roadcrafter) had all 3 pretty soaked so we packed it in.
Marty Gutenfart said:
Never seen one sliding down the road at fifty miles an hour either
I take cod liver oil every day... went sea fishing for years and never caught a Cod with a cold
ianf said:
i think it should have read XCR in my post. it's the 25% more breathable bonded stuff anyway.
rukka underwear is bloody good too. sceptical at first, but now converted.
Rukka - very bad colour selection they have in collection - dominant black pieces most of them. Don't want even to see a black clothing after spending August month in Iran with black clothing!
BWM, Hein Gericke Tuareg series, couple of stuff from Revit collection + very few others make light coloured stuff. Also protection factor came into mind after having serious crash.
Since i see BMW Rally jacket weared by proffessional Paris-Dakar riders (who were riding KTMs mostly btw - like PG Lundmark for example)
who's lives are at very high risk and who thus chose the best, then i went for Rallye jacket without any second thoughts, especially if it was about 3X cheaper than in shop @ eBay. And looks like my dream has come true: i've tested my Rally 2 in +4 Celcius degrees here and with GoreTex innerjacket, i can ride with just a light fleece under it, though i'm sure it'll be ridable even in +50C Sahara without innerjacket because the breathing is seriously 1st class with all those air-intake openings i ever seen on any jacket! If to remove the Gore innerjacket then you can FEEL how much breathing the jacket really is riding in +4 cold, and that when all air intakes are closed, so it made me think about it's waterproofness if it alone breathes so well, meaning the Goretex used in jacket itself must have pretty big pores and it's just the innerjacket (also GoreTex, but probably with much smaller pores) that does the windstopping and heat insulation job. So altough it makes perfect jacket to go from bloody cold Estonia somewhere bloody hot south like we had experienced in our Iran expedition, but i still doubt in it's rainproof capability, nothing is perfect, "to win on one side you'll lose on another".
I tend to agree the promised 100% of waterproofness isn't entirely true in hard reality. To make Gore fully waterproof means the material must be quite perfectly clean. But riding in the conditions like we have here in Eastern Europe and Asia - gravel roads, disel and dust in the air, it get's dirty in the matter of hours, and ferking dirty in a matter of few days. I think that's why my previous GoreTex jacket, that was also ment to be fully waterproof, failed me in the rain, altough i cleaned it quite often, and with every cleaning there come off excessive amount of dirt.
Never thought that way: dirt vs Gore's pores. Anyone has similar experiences?
So looks like the good old separate PVC (100% rainproof guaranteed, no matter how much dirt you have on it) rain suit is still essential on longer trips for me...
Cheers, Margus
BWM, Hein Gericke Tuareg series, couple of stuff from Revit collection + very few others make light coloured stuff. Also protection factor came into mind after having serious crash.
Since i see BMW Rally jacket weared by proffessional Paris-Dakar riders (who were riding KTMs mostly btw - like PG Lundmark for example)
who's lives are at very high risk and who thus chose the best, then i went for Rallye jacket without any second thoughts, especially if it was about 3X cheaper than in shop @ eBay. And looks like my dream has come true: i've tested my Rally 2 in +4 Celcius degrees here and with GoreTex innerjacket, i can ride with just a light fleece under it, though i'm sure it'll be ridable even in +50C Sahara without innerjacket because the breathing is seriously 1st class with all those air-intake openings i ever seen on any jacket! If to remove the Gore innerjacket then you can FEEL how much breathing the jacket really is riding in +4 cold, and that when all air intakes are closed, so it made me think about it's waterproofness if it alone breathes so well, meaning the Goretex used in jacket itself must have pretty big pores and it's just the innerjacket (also GoreTex, but probably with much smaller pores) that does the windstopping and heat insulation job. So altough it makes perfect jacket to go from bloody cold Estonia somewhere bloody hot south like we had experienced in our Iran expedition, but i still doubt in it's rainproof capability, nothing is perfect, "to win on one side you'll lose on another".
I tend to agree the promised 100% of waterproofness isn't entirely true in hard reality. To make Gore fully waterproof means the material must be quite perfectly clean. But riding in the conditions like we have here in Eastern Europe and Asia - gravel roads, disel and dust in the air, it get's dirty in the matter of hours, and ferking dirty in a matter of few days. I think that's why my previous GoreTex jacket, that was also ment to be fully waterproof, failed me in the rain, altough i cleaned it quite often, and with every cleaning there come off excessive amount of dirt.
Never thought that way: dirt vs Gore's pores. Anyone has similar experiences?
So looks like the good old separate PVC (100% rainproof guaranteed, no matter how much dirt you have on it) rain suit is still essential on longer trips for me...
Cheers, Margus
You're getting there. The problem occurs when you don't maintain the water repellant properties of the face fabric, ie the Cordura or similar fabric from which the garment is constructed. In those circumstances the face fabric can become waterlogged which prevents perspiration vapour transpiring through the semi-permeable Gore-Tex membrane. Also, as has already been pointed out, what you wear underneath a Gore-Tex garment is very important. Ideally you should only wear wicking performance garments. Wool and silk are acceptable but cotton isn't.Tsiklonaut said:
I simply carry a one piece PVC rain suit,it does the job really well and packs down pretty small, I can ride in whatever of my suits I choose for the time of year and not worry if it rains.Yes it is a pain to have to stop and put on,but it works the best for me.
Bigtwin
Guest
Years of bitter experience tells me:
Nikwax - won't make anything more than shower-proof, especially when you are moving at any speed (= greater hydrostatic head pressure)
Gore-tex = Holy Grail of motorcycling waterproofs, but has to be in a well-made garment.
For cold, I have a Rukka suit - never, ever leaked a drop, but yeah, it's like a Model T - black or black.
For warm, I have a BMW Savanna jacket, and use a Gore-tex cycling jacket under it (the BMW Gore-tex liner is a p1sstake on price) when it rains = perfect. For the legs I have some surplus store Gore-tex combat trouser waterproofs - go over the leathers/boots easily with huge gusset (arf arf) at bottom of legs, and secure non-flap stylie with velcro - great, cheap and never ever leaked, even in hours of rain M-way riding.
Nikwax - won't make anything more than shower-proof, especially when you are moving at any speed (= greater hydrostatic head pressure)
Gore-tex = Holy Grail of motorcycling waterproofs, but has to be in a well-made garment.
For cold, I have a Rukka suit - never, ever leaked a drop, but yeah, it's like a Model T - black or black.
For warm, I have a BMW Savanna jacket, and use a Gore-tex cycling jacket under it (the BMW Gore-tex liner is a p1sstake on price) when it rains = perfect. For the legs I have some surplus store Gore-tex combat trouser waterproofs - go over the leathers/boots easily with huge gusset (arf arf) at bottom of legs, and secure non-flap stylie with velcro - great, cheap and never ever leaked, even in hours of rain M-way riding.
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